Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms Investment value of "classic" vehicles..?

Thanks all for taking the time to respond to my ramble, I find all that you type very interesting.

Peter J, I know nothing of the antiques market but have watched various markets rise and fall and at different rates for different reasons, as for "classic" cars I do well remember a time when old cars were referred to as no more than BANGERS... I brought a few bangers back to life before the Classic press appeared in the newsagents which seemed to run parallel with the term disposable income being used in financial circles... hmm..?

Me..? I would take the garage queen as opposed to a tired old sports car that had been ragged around who knows where and how long for, which then had been treated to a skilful job of masking it`s history.. But then garage queens can have had a hidden past too... Perhaps kinda like the person who was friendly with one of Hollywood's finest actresses, a lady who ever played prim and proper housewife rolls, when the friend was asked to describe the actress, replied "I knew her before she was a virgin"... (-:

As for restrictive regulation in Europe that may show it`s face in the UK...? I believe there is already a process of separating "historic" vehicles from the other categories of motor vehicles, currently relating to MOT issues, though once you have created a separate category you can then alter regulation for that category far more easily..! Many years ago I remember that there was talk of the French restricting use of older cars that did not match the then current vehicle lighting regulation, and may have restricted their usage to day time only, and may also have been restricted to travel within the department in which they were registered....? Though in truth none of that really applies in terms of being accurate or otherwise, for as we know regulations can change and greatly affect all manner of things in a very short time-scale...? Addendum..OOPS, while typing this I see Pandy has supplied more up to date and accurate info... (-:

Why look at the Mini E Peter, when it is just possible that your Morgan could be modified to be electrically driven, then perhaps converted to hydrogen if ever it is found that the idea of battery powered electric vehicles was perhaps a bad idea.... Though will we even still be around at that time... (-:

Heinz, many thanks for the heads up on the "H" plate regulation and how it has progressed, it will be interesting to monitor how that situation will be handled, but I guess the politicians are busy with other things at the moment... !

Tim H Yup, the Capital Gains Tax advantages that may restrict "avoidance" of passing one`s collection of Bugattis on to one`s offspring is not something I have concerns over...(-: However if that little loop hole is closed I suspect you may be correct in that the classic market may take a bit of a hit, perhaps more so at the higher end of the scale..? As for the timescale both you and Eddie Cairns suggest as being circa 20yrs.... I have zero worries on that score as I may be in heaven by then, or more than likely just dust... Boy have I enjoyed many fun miles in my Morgan and a variety of other machinery... (-:

Eddie, I can well understand that younger folk, as opposed to old hands-on baby boomers may be attracted to the 90`s modern vehicles with a measure of modern classic potential, given they are mostly digitally controlled and the youngsters grew up with that technology, thus if they can not communicate with a Morgan via an app then they perhaps think car is just stupid. Thus it seems logical(?) if one wishes to run a machine with and internal combustion engine (ICE), then upgrade to the newest possible as soon as you can, would seem to provide potential for extending personal use of ICE vehicles, given the older ones would seem logically (?) to be the first to be initially taxed more heavily, before eventually being legislated off the roads, either bit by bit or in one foul swoop..? I also agree with your thinking on PCP to some degree relative to the young, though it seems some baby boomers may have been sucked into that process too..Hmm..? It may be interesting to see how that works out for the thousands of diesel cars as they reach the end of their contracts in the next year or so, now that the UK has wakened up in varying degrees relative to climate change... hmm..?

sospan, I have no doubt that a car was designed to be driven, my Morgan too, it took five years of savings to buy my Morgan circa 2002 and in the early years of ownership I greatly enjoyed touring Southern Europe as well as attending classic car events in the UK.... It`s "market" value ever considered as a possible cushion should anything unfortunate happen in life as can oft times catch one out, after all five years of savings was not throw away money for me.. When I look back at the amount of enjoyment my Morgan provided in those early years, it has paid for it`s self in spades.... though would I sell it for a fiver today ... I think not, it still has a value should something untoward crop up, though it plays less of a part in my financial stratedgy than it did when I first stretched to buy it. Today it`s insured value follows market trends to some degree, and reading of issues some folk have relative to ins co`s interpretation of market values can be very important on occasion, when they might determine it a write off in the case of what may be reasonably considered repairable by a hands on owner...? As for the expectations relative to the right of ownership of a motor vehicle, I suspect TIME alters much in the way of personal expectations given the exponential increase in car ownership during my lifetime, however I suspect that can be reversed by many and varied means..? I suspect you are correct when you typed that a complex and emotive future is looming. I hope you can keep on enjoying your Morgan for a very long time.. (-:

DaveW, I doubt whether the affordability of motor vehicles will affect possible changes in regulation, as I suspect politicians may be forced to move in whatever direction the minds of the masses may be manipulated to accept...? I have not the slightest idea how many old diesel cars which may have had years of usable life in them, ended up parked on airfields and the like before being "scrapped" as the result of government influence... but I suspect there were quite a few..? How long before that process was that foreseen I wonder..? Yup I think change can come about quite quickly...? BIG change, even quicker perhaps.. I suspect it all depends on the amount of driving force applied..? It seems in terms of global warming that the pundits determine EVERYONE has to pay and in more ways than we might care to imagine.... Horses..? Now there is an idea, though they too pollute, which might be good for the roses but it seems the environmentalists want to do away with cows as their poop and the gasses from it are determined as harmful to the planet... the list is long it seems..? I most definately agree that the classic car market is superheated and the potential for a dramatic fall seems self evident...? But then how many professional economists saw the coming of the financial crash..? I suspect the smart ones kept it to themselves while they sold of their non-essential holdings, even their BIG houses, and downsized JUST before it came to a head... hmm..?

SFG, dementia care costs some years back when my family had such involvement were £900/week... That will eat up the average classic car value in jig time if not the house which part or all of it may already have been re-mortgaged to pay for holidays, the kids education, their first car and whatever else a modern-day responsible parent feels the need to supply, given the kid is working a zero hours contract or somesuch..? Yup the oft times huge amounts of money required for for dementia care may already have been spent on other things long before the symptoms show themselves..! Euthanasia seems bound to come to the fore, though it seems that the young may die off before their parents given the numbers of well overweight young folk waddling around, so much so that the retirement age increases may be more to keep the country running as the skill set of codgers is more needed now than it was when the govt wanted them pensioned off to get access to part of their pension pot and to enable companies to cut their employment costs....? When that woman took the govt to court and won her case to continue working on after age 60.... folk at the DWP must have had a big party...Duh! I wonder was that a set-up... (-: Investment in old cars in 20 years..? As I have already typed I suspect I will be past caring about anything by then... Though there has been an ever growing market from perhaps the seventies onward that may have matched the growth in disposable income averages across the population over the same years, which it seems has created a lot of jobs and a lot of taxation to loose, but then if all I have read heard and watched relative to Brexit, it seems acceptable to restrict business, or even let it partially shut down production, or even go to the wall to break our linkage with the EU, thus the logical (?) fall in the value of classic cars may never recover to match anything like it has been over the last twenty or more years, how soon before old cars are once again looked upon as not much more than old BANGERS...? As for that which those educated at Eton and similar establishments I fear they are experiencing exposure like never before as to their preferred social pastimes and financial fiddling as to whether the common good is served or not by destruction of the system as was...????

Richard... if one of your cars has gained circa £5K now might be the time to capitalise and buy a newer vehicle for reasons previously stated given it seems you too think the market is overheated, but then if 5K might be considered as pocket change, for any of us then the vehicle(s) in question pays out far more by way of returns in one`s enjoyment of it, then market values will play no part in any decision making process, thus we might tend just to hold on to it/ them..regardless of market value variations over time.

nick w, I suspect you have been watching things classic car related for a while, given your astute assessment, though advertised prices may be misleading when it is the sale price that determines the market. Think I read on this forum of a very nice Morgan that even reducing the advertised price seemed not to attract a real buyer...? Hope it is sold now. I think the changes you may have noted in the last year may be nothing like those in the next year or so.... but then I claim zero financial training, so anything I type is to be taken with a pinch of salt..I suspect there may be times when advertised prices encourage the market to think it is worth more than it really is, perhaps predominantly just before a fall...??

howard, I doubt that even the higher end of the ICE vehicles will escape general market trends if the govt alters regulation to make them close to illegal to use on the Queens highway or in much of Europe, though I suspect the US and other countries may be completely different, so perhaps there will be a market for average classics in Outer Mongolia or elsewhere, who knows.. certainly not I... Ferrari..? A friend of mine was given one for nothing, a V12, so even Ferraris with rock star former owners can end up with little or no value for their owners...!!!! Strange but true. And yeah for sure time is not on the side of us baby boomers, but boy did we have it so much better than every generation that came before, as for those that are following us.... hmm..?

Edwin, only 6 weeks ... (-: You currently have precisely the correct attitude, long may it last... ENJOY..

I caught an episode of Chasing Classic Cars in the early hours and perhaps as the result of my recent ramble I paid a little more attention to the attendees at the auction and baby boomers were most assuredly in the majority, as ever the quality of the machinery at the auction FAR exceeded that which ever exited the works where they were built, to the extent that they could be more thought of as automotive jewellery, than any kind of transport that might be used again on the road. Another rather obvious observation was a stunning collection of 90 vehicles that were for sale as one job lot, formerly collected by one private individual, then recently bought up by another who may have had backers, and they now wanted to move on..... hmm..?? I do wonder if the folk behind that initial recent investment decision have now decided the market may be on the move and not in a positive way..?

Interesting times ahead methinks..

Mr Button you have set a very hard to follow example on extracting returns from an investment...long may your spark plugs keep sparking..

Just thinking in type. As ever more than happy to discuss..