Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Automatic Plus 4 Launched

I had very good service from them when my gearbox locked in second. They are the suppliers of Mazda gearboxes to Morgan and are the people who do the auto conversion. I believe that completed new manual cars go to them for the conversion rather than the auto box being installed in the factory. Seems a funny way to do it but probably has something to do with homologation rules.

exactly - this is the way its done.

It's got nothing to do with the factory or homoligation rules......they are totally independent from the factory even though they are the gearbox suppliers.

Quite realise that they are independent Jay. Just that it would make a hell of a lot more sense to install the gearbox in the build stage rather than take a new car to their workshop and pull the engine and gearbox out to change to the auto box.

I don't know if it can be done without removing the gearbox cover and I know from personal experience just what a pig of a job that is. A bit stupid really as a couple of minor design changes would turn it from an unbelievable struggle to a walk in the park.

The upturned flange on the front of the cover makes it very difficult to get out without dismantling half the car, and who the hell thought it was a good idea to put the prop shaft cover over the rear flange of the gearbox cover. Remove seats, peel back the glued leather, push seatbelt fastened sensor wires back through the grommet, unscrew fasteners, remove cover, and then you can start on the gearbox cover (all nicely glued in place with mastic).

F1 gearboxes dont have the automatic facility because its not allowed in the technical regs. But adding it is just a matter of electronics I believe . Certainly the F1 box in my road car was developed by John Barnard for the 1990 season F1 season and is in effect an automated manual box with electronically controlled servos operating the clutch and gear selection.. I can use either flappy paddles or allow it to work in full auto. The Porsche and current Ferrari road car boxes are similar with double clutch and an extra layshaft but again electronics and servos allow you to use paddles or full auto.

Interesting quote from Patrick Head at Williams. " We ran the system on-track for the first time in 1990, but we didn’t race it. It was then part of the FW14 in ’91 and I think the system cost us that year’s championship because we had appalling reliability in the first four races. The problems were very easily solved and from mid-season we were very fast and reliable. All of our cars since have had semi-automatic gearboxes.

“Some people tell me that F1 would be better if the drivers still used stick shifts, but that’s a bit like saying, “isn’t it a pity we don’t still walk around in clogs!” There was a discussion in ’93 about banning semi-auto ’boxes because people like Alain Prost viewed changing gear with a lever as part of a driver’s skill-set.
“But we decided to keep semi-auto ’boxes because 95 percent of engine failures in the old days were caused by a driver changing down too early and over-revving the engine. The moment you have gear-shifting under electronic control, over-revved engines are out the door and life is much cheaper!”

Interestingly the Jag F type uses a more conventional automatic box re-designed to give better fuel economy by locking gears to prevent slip, and to give faster flappy paddle type changes. Effectively what seems to have happened is that modern electronics has allowed a "comoing together" of the old style manual and auto gearboxes so that both now offer the choice of manual or auto operation.

The AMG Box in the C43 is similar, a Mercedes/ZF 9 speed torque converter box that locks out the torque converter after every shift and disconnects the box from the engine in ECO Mode when you take your foot off the loud pedal, effectively coasting in neutral.

So the torque converter acts as a clutch and the box changes gear VERY rapidly. It also links to the engine ECU so in sport mode the throttle blips to rev match on down shifts.

Unlike normal Mercedes engines there is no soft rev limiter and in manual mode the box doesn't change up when you hit the hard rev limiter.

All in all in sport mode it is as close to a normal gearbox as is possible but in Comfort it is a well managed fully automatic box.

Unlike the previous Merc the differences between the various modes are profound, altering suspension, steering weight, gear change points, auxiliary device load and exhaust noise. These are all individually selectable, so using the "Individual" setting one can mix and match engine, gearbox, suspension, steering and ancillary load settings. Really rather clever.

My Jaguar XE is the same...then again ZF provide all the boxes and Bosch the electronics for most of these manufacturers...so no surprise there....

Would this "aftermarket" type change be classed as a major modification sufficient to cause issues in some countries?

Which model XE do you have? Mine should arrive at the dealers today or tomorrow (I hope). I have a longish trip to do on Sunday next and with a bit of luck I should get my hands on it Friday. If not it will be next week

Mine is, or will be, an XE 2.0D 180CV Auto R-Sport in Italian Racing Red with Black leather and one or two extras.

This was my thought.

Clearly the Morgan was homologated with a manual gearbox and, at the very least, a change of gearbox would effect consumption and emissions figures.
When I bought my car various items were fitted by Aero Racing as aftermarket changes. I was told this is because the car must pass through the factory itself in the form in which it has been homologated because they could have an inspection at any time.
In reality with the small production and customised nature of Morgan cars it is very unlikely that any in depth enquiry would be made as to whether or not a particular gearbox was in the homologation as a model variation.