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Aug 24th, 2023
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Joined: Nov 2015
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Just barreling along Talk Morgan Guru
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Just barreling along Talk Morgan Guru
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 7,914 Likes: 243 |
Update, been out today to try and test the airbox mods, only managed 30miles as the Derbyshire roads were too busy and lots of x-mas dawdlers
At road legal speeds it's difficult to feel a genuine difference, but it has stopped making the awful 'wheeze' when applying throttle in a high gear at low revs
It ran cooler, fan never cut in
And it now sounds superb, nice gurgle of induction
So for me it's a tick, but I will be working on a Naca duct to fit against the side louvre
Jon M
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 511 Likes: 1
Talk Morgan Regular
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Talk Morgan Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 511 Likes: 1 |
I've been thinking about this while driving today and watching the temp gauge rise to 100 at 70mph. The front wings are like a big funnel with their shape being sloped towards the back and I wonder if this causes the pressure in the engine bay. I will be investigating tomorrow unless SWMBO has different work instructions  Do you remember the thread when Lockheed Martin in the USA reported about the investigations in the wind tunnel? At that time, someone (an employee?) had his Rover Plus 8 tested there. The result was very interesting. The engineers' recommendation was to install a base plate in the front. In this way the air can flow through the radiator. This base plate should cover the area from the radiator to the engine.
Since I have an aluminum radiator in my 4/4, two things have changed. And I think it has something to do with the fact that this new radiator is wider and deeper.
The first thing I noticed was that now even more cold fresh air is being sucked up directly behind the radiator. That's good and really noticable during acceleration because my airbox is right behind the radiator...with the intake hole facing down.
The second thing I notice with my 4/4 is negative, but it's also an effect of the larger radiator: There's even less air flowing through the radiator, because the larger amount of fresh air coming from directly behind the radiator in form of an upstream from below will reduce the flow of air through the radiator even more. One air flow blocks the other.
So I notice quite clearly that the engine becomes much warmer at higher speeds, so from 140 km/h, than with the smaller original plastic radiator in the past. If it used to be 90 degrees, it's now 105 degrees.
This is a dilemma, and I want to experiment with a base plate in spring, to block the upstream so that more air flows through the radiator.
At the same time I want to make an opening with a pipe in this new base plate so that the airbox gets cold air, but the radiator continues to have air flowing through it.
In this way, the overall temperature in the engine compartment would have to drop, even in Plus 8.
Simon
2002 4/4
1936 Austin 12 light 4 Ascot saloon
2023 AMG Mercedes C300e estate
2021 Audi A1 sport
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 511 Likes: 1
Talk Morgan Regular
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Talk Morgan Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 511 Likes: 1 |
Interesting because your race prepared Morgan is producing WAY more HP than mine. I will check out my options tomorrow and try a plate from rad to engine as suggested Heinz earlier. I ran a full valance (not just flap) and flat floor under the engine on my 4/4 racer. It makes a lot of positive difference in terms of managing airflow correctly.
Simon
2002 4/4
1936 Austin 12 light 4 Ascot saloon
2023 AMG Mercedes C300e estate
2021 Audi A1 sport
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,342 Likes: 91
Talk Morgan Guru
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Talk Morgan Guru
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,342 Likes: 91 |
Luckily I have found the original report on Gomog (see below). It was not Lookheed Martin which I recalled but Freightliner in Portland, Oregon who did the exploration on a Morgan car in 1995. Very interesting that they could prove that the size of the (then used) radiator was totally ok and the issue has to be resolved by changing the airflow, not the radiator itself. I only noticed that the even bigger size of my in other respects brilliant aluminium radiator emphasizes the issue of the airflow when blocking its effectivity at higher speeds and when the temparature rises accordingly. Here is the article which is the initiator of my idea to repeat their procedere to mount a flat floor underneath the gap between radiator and engine which will become an early spring project for me. http://www.gomog.com/BLAIR/tech/cooling/art020.htmltmg513 was so kind to post this link in May of 2018.
'14 4/4 graphite grey
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 511 Likes: 1
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Talk Morgan Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
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Thanks Heinz, interesting reading. I've ordered a sheet of aluminium and will report back when done with findings.
Simon
2002 4/4
1936 Austin 12 light 4 Ascot saloon
2023 AMG Mercedes C300e estate
2021 Audi A1 sport
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Joined: Dec 2011
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,943 |
I have done the Dwight Smith (Freightliner) modification on My '63 +4-4Str. It works, but not dramatic. However: I now have a Shroud around a engine driven plastic fan. The plastic fan blade is a universal unit that can be cut down and blades trimmed to reduce the noise. The shroud was designed by Bob Nogueira (Texas). Robert Couch helped me sort the Flex-A-Lite Plastic fan blade. If I could just figure out TM's picture system I would send more information. Flex-A-Lite has a Universal Electric Fan with a Plastic Shroud that will fit on the inside of a radiator. I have this on My '61 DHC. Win Mueling (A Canadian) who lives North of Me installed this on two +8's (1970 & 1986) with success (I hear).
Button
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,799 Likes: 3 |
If it's true that the airflow hits the firewall and then forms a high pressure area under the bonnet then that high pressure could be an advantage for the engine air intake if you can pick it up in a reasonably cool area.
Bob
2009 Black Roadster
1999 4/4 2 litre Zetec
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Posts: 511 Likes: 1
Talk Morgan Regular
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Talk Morgan Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 511 Likes: 1 |
If it's true that the airflow hits the firewall and then forms a high pressure area under the bonnet then that high pressure could be an advantage for the engine air intake if you can pick it up in a reasonably cool area.
That's true, sort of free turbo charging - however - the reason for my concern on this topic is that a couple of years ago we drove down in to France via the channel tunnel. When we arrived at the tunnel there was a bit of a queue so we went from 70mph to stationary in quite a short distance. Unbeknown to me the fan relay had decided it wanted a day off and shortly after we stopped the engine overheated and most of the contents of the cooling system blew out. The header is just in front of the passenger side windscreen and whilst alarming it didn't cause any injury however if we had been travelling at motorway speeds it could have blown back in my wifes face and she wouldn't like that. This is why I'm keen to control the temperature whilst moving.
Last edited by Guten; 03/01/19 08:28 AM.
Simon
2002 4/4
1936 Austin 12 light 4 Ascot saloon
2023 AMG Mercedes C300e estate
2021 Audi A1 sport
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 2,223 Likes: 20
Talk Morgan Expert
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Talk Morgan Expert
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 2,223 Likes: 20 |
Do you remember the thread when Lockheed Martin in the USA reported about the investigations in the wind tunnel? At that time, someone (an employee?) had his Rover Plus 8 tested there. The result was very interesting. The engineers' recommendation was to install a base plate in the front. In this way the air can flow through the radiator. This base plate should cover the area from the radiator to the engine.
Since I have an aluminum radiator in my 4/4, two things have changed. And I think it has something to do with the fact that this new radiator is wider and deeper.
The first thing I noticed was that now even more cold fresh air is being sucked up directly behind the radiator. That's good and really noticable during acceleration because my airbox is right behind the radiator...with the intake hole facing down.
The second thing I notice with my 4/4 is negative, but it's also an effect of the larger radiator: There's even less air flowing through the radiator, because the larger amount of fresh air coming from directly behind the radiator in form of an upstream from below will reduce the flow of air through the radiator even more. One air flow blocks the other.
So I notice quite clearly that the engine becomes much warmer at higher speeds, so from 140 km/h, than with the smaller original plastic radiator in the past. If it used to be 90 degrees, it's now 105 degrees.
This is a dilemma, and I want to experiment with a base plate in spring, to block the upstream so that more air flows through the radiator.
At the same time I want to make an opening with a pipe in this new base plate so that the airbox gets cold air, but the radiator continues to have air flowing through it.
In this way, the overall temperature in the engine compartment would have to drop, even in Plus 8. My air intake now comes in from above the radiator    
Craig Jezz
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 7,948 Likes: 218
Talk Morgan Guru
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Talk Morgan Guru
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 7,948 Likes: 218 |
Luckily I have found the original report on Gomog (see below). It was not Lookheed Martin which I recalled but Freightliner in Portland, Oregon who did the exploration on a Morgan car in 1995. Very interesting that they could prove that the size of the (then used) radiator was totally ok and the issue has to be resolved by changing the airflow, not the radiator itself. I only noticed that the even bigger size of my in other respects brilliant aluminium radiator emphasizes the issue of the airflow when blocking its effectivity at higher speeds and when the temparature rises accordingly. Here is the article which is the initiator of my idea to repeat their procedere to mount a flat floor underneath the gap between radiator and engine which will become an early spring project for me. http://www.gomog.com/BLAIR/tech/cooling/art020.htmltmg513 was so kind to post this link in May of 2018. Since that article referred to tests on a 1972 +8, I wonder how or if airflow within the engine compartment has been improved since. Would have thought the variety of engines, body widths and particularly louvres between models in the following years would have affected results.
Richard
2018 Roadster 3.7
1966 Land Rover S2a 88
2024 Royal Enfield Guerrilla 450
1945 Guzzi Airone
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