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SFG #630410 14/04/20 04:17 PM
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L
Part of the Furniture
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L
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Heinz, much depends on the design of the circuit and the way the switch is mounted, unfortunately I do not know how it/they are mounted in your car.

For example in the case of a simple spring loaded button type brake light switch, in which the button was being held compressed against the spring by the brake pedal when not being pressed. IF then the pedal is pressed the button is allowed to spring back out, thus closing the contacts in the switch to bring the brake lights ON, the switch would be described as NC, for if you had just taken it out of it`s packet as a new switch and put your meter across the terminals it would read as a short circuit, close to zero ohms, or if using a buzzer across the terminals it would buzz

Make any sense..?

SFG #630414 14/04/20 04:28 PM
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Mr Sceptical again I’m afraid...I am mystified by the conclusion reached so far, feasible though it may appear to be. Here we have 2 cars, one 8 years old and one 6 years old, which I guess have performed ok for most of their lives? Now with similar faults arising, it seems that both cars (and possibly others) have been fitted with an incorrect switch that operates in a totally reverse way to what it should! So it begs the question as to why the problem has not been evident since new? It doesn't quite add up to me but would love to be proved wrong again.


Doug
2011 Plus 4 in Rich Maroon

1972 750 “ComDom” sprinter
1958 Triton 650
1992 Triumph Trophy 900
Heinz #630423 14/04/20 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Heinz
If as you can see in the Ford Focus schematic the second switch on the brake must be interrupted when you don't brake then I have the wrong switch.

I’m trying to keep up…. So where is the second brake switch on the schematic?


Roger
2011 Plus 4
SFG #630434 14/04/20 05:47 PM
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I haven’t found any reference to a BPS other than Roger‘s wiring diagram on page 10, where it is supplied by a green brown wire, whereas mine are different colours.
It seems from Heinz’s conclusions that the BPS doesn’t do much and could be disconnected.

Are there any Ford (or Morgan) engineers on here who have a workshop manual that might describe the BPS?
Has anyone got a wiring diagram that can identify black/ white and black/yellow wires?
Can we get a larger sample of driving with the BPS disconnected?
Can anyone report a case of the BPS function actually working? (Well maybe I can ! I have an intermittent power loss which might be caused by the BPS failing to open! (But why did it never lose power when I hit the brake before?))
Can anyone get the throttle position sensor off?




Last edited by SFG; 14/04/20 05:49 PM.

SFG
2012 4/4 Sport
SFG #630448 14/04/20 07:12 PM
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I drove 180 km, highway and country road. Yesterday I had cut the battery. In the meantime the ECU has learned itself new. The car drives better and better! It doesn't matter if a few horsepower more, but what is the case. The whole emotional interaction with the engine and the car is different. More bite, a much more direct response, even a different engine sound. Than that is more significant than if it was just pretended. Another effect I noticed is that the engine brake has become much more effective. There wasn't the slightest symptom of a gas failure. It's over. I drive with more confidence in the engine. The human-machine interface is more alive and intuitive. The question is justified what exactly this circuit does, but even without knowing that, it does a lot.

Naturally, skepticism is called for and even desired. But I've had these gas-interrupting blackouts for three years now. And...of course there were times when I didn't have any gas misfires and I was happy with the car. But there is no comparison with now.

Actually it is quite simple. Either everybody else has the correct BPS switch or some have the wrong one like me. It doesn't cost a cent to try if you break the switch by pulling a wire.

It drives differently if you don't work against this circuit. I will install a correct switch.

SFG, you bought a new switch. What did you order? Just a switch, or did you specify whether it should be an NC or NO? Or did you simply order a switch for the brake pedal in the BPS function? It would be interesting to know what you got.

Last edited by Heinz; 14/04/20 07:26 PM.

'14 4/4 graphite grey
SFG #630455 14/04/20 07:55 PM
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Heinz, I ordered a brake light switch: Melvin asked me for more info, so I sent a photo . Melvin supplied a switch ELS104B from his catalogue. I think you are saying that disconnecting the switch seems to reset the ecu?
Did you also disconnect the battery?
Great news about your car
Rgds
Stuart

Last edited by SFG; 14/04/20 08:17 PM.

SFG
2012 4/4 Sport
SFG #630460 14/04/20 08:14 PM
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Stuart, I have to check the Brake light switch but I would guess what Melvin sent to you should be the right one as well in the function of the BPS.
Disconnecting this switch does not reset the ECU. And as Colin said before today with modern ECU you delete a failure via the OBD2 tool. I have a battery switch which I interrupted for safety reason when I also checked all the fuses concerning any mud etc
And in this sense it is perhaps not a reset but all the learned values of the driving are gone. at least so is the way she drives and ca. 60 miles are needed before everything is right again.

Could you compare the new switch sent by Melvin with your old one? So the new is probably a NC. It would be interesting to see if the old switch was a NC as well or a NO. Regarding the gas interruptions it would be the same cause with your car as my if you have had a NO switch. Then we have a clue whether more than once a NO switch, which does not fit electrically, was installed.

As I said, I am a little bit excited at the moment and I hope the healing will continue. If my car should stutter again it is not unpleasant for me to report this here.


'14 4/4 graphite grey
SFG #630461 14/04/20 08:24 PM
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Heinz I’ll try to test the switch in the morning


SFG
2012 4/4 Sport
SFG #630463 14/04/20 08:35 PM
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Interesting that car builder solutions lists only one brake light switch and it is normally closed, as we expect.

Neither Melvyn’s catalogue or Car Builder solutions catalogue lists anything like an engine or fuel cutout switch

Last edited by SFG; 14/04/20 08:36 PM.

SFG
2012 4/4 Sport
SFG #630492 15/04/20 06:38 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
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This is sounding like a great result for Heinz, especially after 3 years (and hopefully Stuart too) but its still not clear to me what the purpose of the Brake Pedal Sensor is. It would seem it doesn't appear to cut the fuel off completely but limits power in some way.

Would Melvyn Rutter or a Morgan dealer or MMC when they return to work be able to tell us the BPS purpose and what the switch actually does?


Rob

4/4 Sport Grey

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