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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 27,810 Likes: 749
Member of the Inner Circle
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Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Jul 2007
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I love the text Richard which says "single businesses are opening again."
Peter I would agree this won't just disappear. Lets hope for a good hot summer & a vaccine. But of course RNA viruses mutate readily. Stay safe.
JohnV6 2022 CX Plus Four 2025 Renault Scenic Alpine etech "Yvette"
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Joined: Dec 2009
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Tricky Dicky Member of the Inner Circle
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Tricky Dicky Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 37,416 Likes: 977 |
I love the text Richard which says "single businesses are opening again." . Yes John I worked out there for three years and had to employ people so got a smattering of the language Heather point blank refused to learn a word and we had our first daughter out there ! it was her Dad being a Major that did that I think fine fellow that he was though. I liked Willi's comment "at 1.5Mtr separation it would limit the clientele to the exceptionally gifted people" ubersetzung 
2009 4/4 Sport Henrietta 1999 Indigo Blue +8 2009 4/4 Sport Green prev 1993 Con Green +8 prev
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Joined: Apr 2008
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Scruffy Oik Member of the Inner Circle
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Scruffy Oik Member of the Inner Circle
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If this analysis doesn't fit with your belief that you need to hide, well, I'm sorry: I'm a rational scientist, not a Guardian reader. Blimey.
Tim H. 1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 2022 Mini Cooper SE
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Joined: Sep 2011
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OP
Member of the Inner Circle
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Peter. Yes we can see the lockdown starting to unravel a little here to, but then we move to stage 2 on Monday anyway. Not that that will make much difference for most people. I think you analysis is reasonably correct. I am not sure about the food industry but it has been shown that a greater infection rate with increased severity occurs in areas of high pollution. I too have wondered whether or not there is a ethnic, i.e. genetic, difference in the severity of people's symptoms. We have the most extraordinary public debate going on here at the moment, and as I write the Italian Prime-minister is addressing the parliament. Restaurants, bars, and hotels are in severe difficulty and many risk to never re-open. At the moment they are talking about mandating increased separation between tables and perspex screens. In addition premises will have to be professionally cleaned and certified as such: €500 a pop fro a small restaurant, thank you. The problem is that, as everyone knows, if there are not safety provisions put in place it will all take off again. These businesses are really starting to organise protests and, in some cases make a great show of symbolically handing keys for the businesses to mayors and government ministers. It is one of those things that you are damned if you do and you are damned if you don't. It seems to me our only hope is a vaccine that consigns COVID to the same historical bin as smallpox. I suspect that if something is found it will be released in record time. I just hope that it is available when I get my next flu shots (I get them free  ) at the beginning of next winter.
Last edited by Gambalunga; 30/04/20 12:25 PM.
Peter
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 5,587
Charter Member
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Charter Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 5,587 |
The UK lockdown is starting to unravel.
In Salisbury I see more and more cars on the road, people on the pavement, groups of people chatting, maintaining a "sort of social separation". Small businesses are returning to work, most building sites are now active.
With B&Q and other DIY stores with garden centres opening in one way or another the population is taking the matter into their hands. A member of ACPO has said that the Police don't feel able to enforce the unenforceable, it was reported in the Telegraph on April 29th Remember, unlike most of Europe, the UK is policed by consent, not by imposition. I haven't seen any indication that the Police are out in rural South Wiltshire enforcing the lockdown since it started, and I've been out in one car or another almost every day. It may be different in urban areas.
To be honest, the virus hasn't altered my behavior one bit, other than wearing gloves when shopping and keeping away from the great unwashed in Tesco. Tesco staff are doing nothing to make people follow the arrows, mainly because those ignoring it are part of the black, Asian and minority ethnic peoples, (BAME) so the staff don't want to be accused of prejudice.
I believe that many businesses are using their advertisements to deal with this virus as a cynical marketing tool, rather than because they really care. I also believe that despite the government support measures there will be massive redundancies in the leisure and hospitality sector, British Airways has just announced that 25% of its staff will have to go, because they see a 5 year recovery of travel, not a quick return. Virgin and Lufthansa are both desperate for Government support, I doubt they will get it.
It is also worth note that it was reported today that the NHS confirms that the virus impacts disproportionately BAME staff, and that they are conducting a risk assessment to see if they should stop BAME staff from working in intensive care areas. As BAME people make up between 20 and 40% of NHS staff this will be difficult. Another analysis stated that if you are over 60, from a BAME background and overweight, with metabolic syndrome should you go into hospital the death rate is worse than Ebola.
The virus is never going completely away, but over the summer it will fade away to a large degree as it doesn't do well when the weather is warm and humid, one reason why New Zealand and much of central america and africa were so little infected. The Southern hemisphere will suffer through their winter, our summer. It is becoming clear that sensitivity to the virus is largely genetically mediated, with the result that elements of the BAME community are disproportionately impacted by the virus. A further kicker is the low level inflammation of an indvidual, cause by air pollution, eating hyper processed foods and certain lifestyle traits. My view is that the global food industry is as much responsible for the deaths as anything else.
It is also interesting that the Swiss have concluded the virus doesn't spread amongst younger, prepubescent children as they lack enough of the cell surface receptors that the virus attached to. So the young can hug grandparents and go back to school. This story was repeated in the Telegraph today 30th April.
There will be a second European phase over this winter, more will die, but not as many as the first cycle as the most sensitive have already died. In the summer of 2021 the virus will fade away again, and for the winter of 2021/2022 there will be effective vaccines.
(If this analysis doesn't fit with your belief that you need to hide, well, I'm sorry: I'm a rational scientist, not a Guardian reader).
Very interesting , thanks Peter .
Geneva 2016 plus 8' The Green Godess' 4 side exits .
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 8,675 Likes: 490
Just barreling along Needs to Get Out More!
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Just barreling along Needs to Get Out More!
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 8,675 Likes: 490 |
The UK lockdown is starting to unravel.
In Salisbury I see more and more cars on the road, people on the pavement, groups of people chatting, maintaining a "sort of social separation". Small businesses are returning to work, most building sites are now active.
I've noticed the same, I had one trip out last week to collect an oldies prescription, I was in a queue of around 12 people and was clearly probably the only one under 60yrs of age, do they just not get it ?, some clearly knew each other and were having a neighbourly chat, so they have opportunities for others to collect for them I strongly suspect our own very elderly mum is sneaking out for a wander down to the shop, which she vehemently denies
Jon M
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 15,794 Likes: 15
Formerly known as Aldermog Member of the Inner Circle
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Formerly known as Aldermog Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 15,794 Likes: 15 |
I think in the UK there is a degree of thinking along these lines....
I've followed the rules for 5 weeks, I haven't been unwell, so I have not had COVID, or I've had it so mildly that it doesn't matter. As I can't get tested I'm going to assume I'm OK. All my friends have done the same, so we are all OK, So I'm not staying locked up any longer.
Because in the UK there is virtually no testing available - the nearest drive through testing points for me, in Salisbury, are Portsmouth, Poole or Bristol, all an hour or so away - it is very difficult to argue against the logic.
There is also a mind set in most of the over 70s along the lines of "I've made it this far, I'm going to enjoy the years left to me and not be pushed around by some snotty little child of a civil servant who thinks he knows better; and I'm certainly not going to be isolated for the rest of the year for my own good!"
We need easily available testing, as in Germany. I'd be very happy to be tested once a month, or if I felt unwell, but it simply isn't going to happen.
The lack of Public Health Testing in the UK is something that the Government is going to have to deal with. Public Health England, a massive Quango, is not fit for purpose. When I started out working for the NHS in 1974 there was a Public Health Laboratory Service (PHLS) laboratory in EVERY hospital. Over the years they were rationalised into regional labs and then one central lab. With 20/20 hindsight, utterly wrong. Yes, they dealt with the NOVOCHOC issue very well, but they have failed to protect the public from COVID19.
Peter[i][/i]
Peter, 66, 2016 Porsche Boxster S No longer driving Tarka, the 2014 Plus 8...
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Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 5,587 Likes: 603
Charter Member
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Charter Member
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 5,587 Likes: 603 |
We need easily available testing, as in Germany. I'd be very happy to be tested once a month, or if I felt unwell, but it simply isn't going to happen.
Peter[i][/i]
I think the rest of what you say has considerable truth for many ..... but we have a tendency to grossly overestimate testing in Germany ..... it may be a good stick with which to beat other governments, but even Germany has only tested a tiny percentage of their population (I guess around 3% by now, it's been a bit since i looked at the figures) .... if they keep up this busy pace it will take 3 years to test their population even once let alone monthly .... and if a vaccine comes along in 18 months there will be no incentive to finish mass testing at all . K
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 22,358 Likes: 353
Roadster Guru Member of the Inner Circle
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Roadster Guru Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 22,358 Likes: 353 |
Isn't this testing obsession really unproductive unless you have symptoms?
You could be OK today and infected tomorrow, or the day after, so what am I missing?
Surely antibody testing along with some evidence of sustained immunity is more valid?
DaveW '05 Red Roadster S1 '16 Yellow (Not the only) Narrow AR GDI Plus 4
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 27,810 Likes: 749
Member of the Inner Circle
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Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 27,810 Likes: 749 |
Dave for the next phase as we relax the lockdown we need to track isolated outbreaks, As symptoms takes 2-3 weeks or even some people are asymptomatic then testing lets you check anyone in contact with someone who is infected (assuming we have a tracking app). Also you don't want infected people in high risk areas like old peoples homes.
The antibody testing also allows us then to see who has had and is hopefully immune for a while.
Basically the more you test the more the management choices for the virus are facts based and not generalistic.
JohnV6 2022 CX Plus Four 2025 Renault Scenic Alpine etech "Yvette"
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