Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms Covid-19

I interpreted 'using the situation' to mean 'criticising the government's handling' because I felt that people who were not criticising would not face the same accusation of playing politics.

The facts of the matter are ones of historical record. The actions that they took (or failed to take) are also matters of historical record. Attempting to analyse why the decisions were taken, and to examine whether other decisions could have or should be made is bound to be seen as political, since they were political decisions in the first place.



Not sure why asking straightforward questions about the implications of your statement is 'playing the man', but whatever.

I have watched Keir Starmer on a couple of things and I do believe he is highly likely to lead the country in the future.I would be willing to put a bet on that and I am not a gambling person generally. I actually think Boris has done better than I expected but this mess will probably result in the desire for a change. I do agree that we have not been covered in glory in our response. Closing or strongly managing the airports from the beginning etc etc. But I am going to put that down to my belief in leadership more than political views.

I dunno about Starmer. To me he's a whiner, rather than a winner, and he is surrounded by invisible lightweights. Obviously he has time to develop a coherent team before the next election, but where are they all now?

For sure the airports should have been managed much sooner, but those decisions seem to have been clouded by commercial pressures. I assume now that the Heathrow extension is doomed.

Had Labour won the election, Corbyn and his merry band would have been managing all this. Would they have done better?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

They'd be hard pushed to do much worse.

In unprecedented times the Government have handled the majority of the crisis with pretty quick reactions. Impossible to get everything right and yes that did result in some deaths, as sad as that is, it is a pandemic. As for the Government not going on GMB, I thought that was because Piers Morgan was a Twat...IMHO.

That's an irrelevant comparison, though. Critics of the government are not claiming that Labour (or anyone else) should be in power, they are saying that the government decisions they are taking now are capable of being improved.

If you look at the questions Keir Starmer is asking, it's about current decisions and policies, not things done in the past. Like for example the fact that they have been publishing international comparison tables for the last 7 weeks, but now that the UK is showing the highest number of deaths and worst performance in Europe, they are suddenly claiming that it's inappropriate to compare.

And it's not a question of hindsight, the evidence from Italy and advice from epidemiologists was available to the government before they took their decisions. Other countries like Germany had the same information and the same opportunities as us.

I think if you watch the Channel 4 documentary on how South Korea dealt with, and are dealing with, the crisis, you would not be saying that our government have handled the majority of the crisis with pretty quick reactions. It is embarrassing to the nation how this has been dealt with so far. And I'm not going to speculate on how anybody else would have dealt with it - the comparison has to be with countries such as South Korea (in particular) and New Zealand have done so. The difference in outcome so far has been too spectacular to be brushed aside by national stereotyping as some commentators have tried.

And of course they haven't got everything wrong - the chancellor in particular seems to have a bit of a handle on what he's doing.

Good point I had not considered Dave. However I don't think they could have even be considered for leadership with Corbyn at point but frankly IMHO not leading at all. I doubt they would have done so well based on their show of leadership and initiative displayed from my personal viewpoint.

There was lots of analysis just after the election on what Labour would need to do to win the next election given where they are now. The upshot was it would be almost impossible without Scotland and the North for them to recover the lost seats and win the new seats required to gain power at the next election.

In addition, after seeing Labour heartland falls - many more hard core Labour voters who are socially conservative might now feel they have been 'given permission' to vote Tory in future elections.

The best Labour could do next time is to stem their losses and possibly try for the next but one election if they had momentum. This would require a 'New Labour' type renaissance with a Messiah type leader far surpassing Sir Keirs Messiah like qualities combined with continued Tory mis management along the way.

Please don't let it be Tony Blair!

Anyway - time will tell

I agree. Labour have sunk so far in the public perception that it would take a miracle for them to expect to win in 2024. But rather than focus on that, the best service they can do the country for the next 5 or 10 years is to be an effective opposition and truly hold the government to account, something they dismally failed to do under Corbyn.

The Conservatives have got the perfect opportunity here. They have a very large majority, so they can put through whatever legislation they like. They have a leader who enjoys extremely widespread popular support. They have a Chancellor who is playing a blinder at the moment. They no longer have to worry about any negative economic consequences of Brexit since the COVID-19 crisis has put that well out of people's minds and given them a convenient scapegoat.

If they can't deliver a reasonable path to recovery once we're through this, then they'll have nobody to blame but themselves.