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Aug 24th, 2023
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,013 Likes: 32
Charter Member
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Charter Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,013 Likes: 32 |
I saw a TV show two days ago on Cobalt mining in Congo. The conditions the poor people live in is absolutely appalling I felt so guilty just owning a mobile phone let alone considering buying a Tesla.
Tesla don't use much Cobolt, in fact some models are Cobolt free as they move away completely from using it. Model 3 and Model Y use lithium iron phosphate batteries which have no Cobolt (the clue is in the name). VW lead the field in Cobolt use as it happens - BMW not far behind and, of course, the portable electronic industry. 'TV shows' are never going to be the best source of information about these evil cars.
+8 4.8
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Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 203
L - Learner Plates On
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L - Learner Plates On
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 203 |
Hmmm…. That doesn’t really give much detail to support the claim. In the end manufacture of all vehicles irrespective of power source, are hugely destructive and the biggest problem is the incessant pressure on everyone to have the latest car and change every couple of years.
Jays. Ex Morgan owner. 1967 MGB Roadster.,
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 6,057 Likes: 160
Talk Morgan Sage
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Talk Morgan Sage
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 6,057 Likes: 160 |
the biggest problem is the incessant pressure on everyone to have the latest car and change every couple of years. Agreed - I am a bit of a petrol head, but my newest vehicle is 20 years old, my oldest is 50 this year. Some of them have been in my personal ownership for 30+ years. Far more environmentally friendly than a new Tesla 
1972 4/4 4 seater, 1981 MGB GT
1984 Harley Davidson Electra Glide, 1990 Kawasaki ZX10
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 11,863 Likes: 137
Scruffy Oik Member of the Inner Circle
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Scruffy Oik Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 11,863 Likes: 137 |
In the end manufacture of all vehicles irrespective of power source, are hugely destructive True, and it's more about the profiteering of private enterprise than the innate nature of mineral extraction. It's all very well to be concerned about the environmental damage done by Cobalt or Lithium extraction, but one ought to also look at the awful damage done in places like Nigeria, Azerbaijan and elsewhere to see that the fossil fuel industry is responsible for huge amounts of environmental destruction.
Tim H.
1986 4/4 VVTi Sport, 2002 LR Defender, 2022 Mini Cooper SE
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 28,416 Likes: 178
Salty Sea Dog Member of the Inner Circle
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Salty Sea Dog Member of the Inner Circle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 28,416 Likes: 178 |
Hmmm…. That doesn’t really give much detail to support the claim. In the end manufacture of all vehicles irrespective of power source, are hugely destructive and the biggest problem is the incessant pressure on everyone to have the latest car and change every couple of years. Nail... Hammer... Spot on J! 
Graham (G4FUJ)
Sold L44FOR 4/4 Giallo Fly
'09 Gen2 MINI Cooper ragtop
'90 LR 90 SW
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,326 Likes: 11
Has a lot to Say!
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Has a lot to Say!
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,326 Likes: 11 |
Hmmm…. That doesn’t really give much detail to support the claim. In the end manufacture of all vehicles irrespective of power source, are hugely destructive and the biggest problem is the incessant pressure on everyone to have the latest car and change every couple of years. Nail... Hammer... Spot on J! Indeed, the most environmentally responsible course might be to buy many existing vehicles, and use them sparingly. Will
Formerly Aero S5 #80
Currently 911 (992) Targa in python green
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,285 Likes: 69
Needs to Get Out More!
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Needs to Get Out More!
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,285 Likes: 69 |
Simplify cars. Remove the unnecessary junk that gets added to entice buyers.
These all add to the complexity, and weight. More to go wrong. Manufacturers need to source more materials for them. Look at how many microchips are in cars and now causing supply problems.
“Sorry sir you have a long wait for your new car due to shortages of microchips. “
“Can I have the car without those chip dependant add-ons? Just a car with engine, brakes, suspension, steering. “
Salesman thinks....”No. That reduces the profit and people don’t want simple cars, they NEED tech and toys”.
Plus Four MY23 Furka Rouge
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,880 Likes: 20
Charter Member
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Charter Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,880 Likes: 20 |
Most things we manufacture/consume have embedded costs that the user doesn't think about. I don't disagree with anything in the article, but it misses the point.
The EV obsession is driven by one thing: a belief that by burning fossil fuels we are raising global carbon dioxide levels which will so heat up the planet as to drive the human race to extinction. That theory may, or may not, be proven, but until then society is driven to cut CO2 emissions, almost at any cost. Only in that context do EVs make sense. The theory is proven and can easily be confirmed in the lab. CO2 in air affects heat transfer rates and since the earth as a whole has to maintain thermal equilibrium, anything that alters the inflow of UV from the sun and the outflow of infra red from the earth affects that equilibrium. The correlation of historic CO2 levels and average termperatures is high. I bought an EV because it is a very cheap to run performance car. It costs about 15% per mile when compared with the car it replaced, a Mercedes AMG C63.
Whilst it is cheap and quick it also offends me, because it carries a 500kg battery pack at all times, so a part of the energy used to move the vehicle is consumed simply to move the mass of the battery.
I hope that hydrogen fuel cells replace battery EVs, but I'd also be quite happy if hydrogen fueled ICE engines appeared.
Another route is green gasoline, made from carbon dioxide extracted from the air and hydrogen from seawater, but it needs a lot of cheap energy. Fusion reactors, anyone?
There is considerable embedded CO2 in every car and more in an EV than in an ICE but to be fair, the real way to save CO2 emissions is to seriously prolongue the life of existing cars. Maybe the government should insist that cars are made evelasting - stainless bodies, chrome bored engines, every single part replaceable and repairable and owners allowe done car for their lives.  P.S. The early comment about Einstein is simply BS
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,773 Likes: 19
Talk Morgan Enthusiast
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Talk Morgan Enthusiast
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,773 Likes: 19 |
...The EV obsession is driven by one thing: a belief that by burning fossil fuels we are raising global carbon dioxide levels which will so heat up the planet as to drive the human race to extinction. That theory may, or may not, be proven, but until then society is driven to cut CO2 emissions, almost at any cost. Only in that context do EVs make sense.
Even this seemingly obvious statement is an oversimplification (ie burning fossil fuel always leads to CO2 emmissions and is therefore really bad for the environment). Carbon capture + storage technology is expensive but still viable (and now results in a lower energy production cost than nuclear!). If only Germany, India and China etc could inject their coal power station CO2 back into depths of the earth we would be in a better place re climate change targets...
M3W5sp 2015, MSCC, MTWC, Oxon UK
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