Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Three Wheeler & Super 3 Centra-drive upgrade

I agree.... I think of myself as a boring driver

there are bold motorcyclists
there are old motorcyclists
but there are very few old, bold motorcyclists

I had planned on ordering his upgrade (mine is a 2018-so not as much to do), but I am not shipping an engine across the pond

Does Phil actually think people are going to ship engines anywhere? Not to mention all the way to England to his shed from lets say Seattle?

I'm currently on the waiting list for Phil's upgrade. I think the crankshaft failures of a couple of Morgans have led Phil to wonder how to ensure the installation prcoess can ensure a proper fit to the crankshaft. I don't think he has had the issue on his installations, but self installs have. I'm not sure how many have failed, and the generally low number of Morgan 3 Wheelers with upgrades make data collection rather difficult.

I can appreciate that Phil stands behind his product and he wants to ensure that it is as fool proof as possible. I agree that shipping an engine from the US is not really a reasonable option. If I think the shipping charges on a few items from the Morgan Shop in Malvern is high, I'm thinking the engine shipping charges would require a loan. I hope that he is able to sort out some solution.

I have 5400 miles on my car now. I'm fine driving around locally, but my confidence quickly wanes when considering longer road trips. I've done many upgrades to my car, but I think Phil's upgrade ranks among the most necessary.

Thought it referred to pilots but guess it carries across well

Reminds me of the line:
There is nothing so useless as the sky above you, the runway behind you and the fuel still in the bowser

Some of the failures have been with Phils own installations, not just those done by customers or other installers. I think that ensuring a correct fit of the spline adaptor to the relatively soft and not amazingly uniform crank splines is a problem. Not sure how this will be overcome but I expect Phil is onto it.

My installation was done by Phil some time ago and has been faultless in the 12,000 plus miles I have covered since, others have not been so fortunate. I have used the Centa rollers for all but the first 1500 miles as I find them a bit less harsh under hard acceleration than Phils inserts, this may have some bearing on the lack of problems I have had? I also had the retaining nut wire locked on assembly to ensure it couldn't move. I believe in belt and braces.....along with some "fence wire" for inaccessible nuts, although the nut coming loose is not the issue I am told. I am at a loss to understand how (on the failed modified Centa drives) the Centa body can be rotated by hand on the splines if the nut remains fully torqued and the adaptor is fully bottomed out against the crank flange, as has been reported. If the wire locking is broken, you 100% know the nut has moved.

I would still recommend Phils Centa mods, it's a much improved design but the spline adaptor is not just a "bolt it up" installation, maybe some very careful fitting and locking is required? I don't know what the answer is but I hope it is fixed soon as it is a concern if you are doing some miles.

Planenut, thanks for the additional detail. Tracking down some of these issues must be difficult since you have a low failure rate on a pretty low production vehicle. I don't know how many Centa conversions Phil has sold but it can't be a very high number. I wish PHil the best on finding a solution. I do still plan on installing the upgrade when he thinks he has it resolved.

It's not like I have any Morgan dealer within almost 1000 miles of me. So when I do replace the centa barrels I will need to do so in my garage unless Phil's upgrade allows me to do it on the side of the road.

From what I understand any breakdown of the rollers happen over time rather than a sudden failure (maybe the original compensator did?)
Some people do many thousand miles with no problems. I look on it like a clutch, at some point it will wear and need replacing and no point replacing it beforehand, if it gets rumbly and causing problems I will investigate until then I will enjoy my ride.

For a well publicised example of sudden failure check out what happened on the https://www.transindiachallenge.com/ - generally you cannot rely on the Centa rollers being in good enough condition to complete a journey without inspecting them (... requiring an access port like in Phil's mod!)...

For me it doesn't make sense to change something that is functioning just in case it doesn't, both practically or financially.
If I got say 20 thousand miles before problems then for me that is about 10 years. Given those numbers for 60 thousand miles (needing a further 2 sets of rollers) the cost is probably the same as getting a mod done which just makes it easier the next time, for me that is 30 years and beyond my train of thought. I understand that for higher mileages and different uses the scenario/ratios may change, but for me even at half those miles or life it doesn't make sense and I doubt I will be driving it across India and will have some form of cover as do my other cars if the worst did happen.

I'm been watching the discussion with great interest. I have a 2016 and completed the Bleazey bevel box / NVH upgrade a few years ago and have the complete Centa replacement in my shop awaiting installation. Based on the questions around spline failures I think I'll take the conservative route and await a failure of the factory inserts and do the replacement then, or if I get weary it goes with the sale of the vehicle.

Regarding Phil, I can't say enough positive things about his products and service. Very helpful.

Cheers