Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Plus Four, Supersport & Plus Six (CX & CXV Generation Vehicles) Plus Six wiper judder - advice requested

Morning Lorne, thank you for your thoughts.. I had found it near on impossible to get accurate answers from the factory over the last 18 months when we were having a run of warranty issues on the car, yes, the faults were rectified ( in time), but nothing in depth explaining the cause of each issue. Quite frustrating. Anyway, ref your Yellow arrow in the photo.. that is the Allan hex screw that passes into a splined wedge that clamps the wiper arm to the wiper spindle. Basically by tightening the screw the wedge is drawn up beween the spline on the wiper spindle and splines inside the wiper arm cap itself, this then secures the arm in position on the spindle ( or its meant to. ).. I have found that it is wise to apply a little Locktite 243 ( Blue ) to the screw as it has a habit of slowly loosening, thus allowing the wiper arm to detach from the spindle... This has happened...

As per Richard, Dave and Jons comments I will first thoroughly clean the screen.. The internet seems to indicate that applying a screen coating could either improve or cause screen wiper judder.. but most seem to say cleaning the screen and testing for judder is the first step.. I am still deeply suss of the fact that the wiper arms have side to side play at their spindle, the section of the arm that goes to the blade is pulled tightly to the wiper arm end cap by its spring, so the "play" at the spindle feels sprung loaded, but the fact that its there on all three arms may be due to design or poor manufacture, just dont know until someone can take a look at their "judderless" car and see if its meant to be...

Just as a thought for a test, if you spray the windshield with some soapy water the juddering should be gone if it is due to the friction of the windshield.

Yes, I understand completely. You are not alone in this over the last 15+ years. It is another reflection of the "hard times" management policy on Pickersleigh. Those in control became very irate after PM's passing about the endless discussions on eMog on how to sort errors occasioned by the ongoing flood of modifications and new models. Staff was strictly warned that offering information to owners could result in consequences. It was a great pity as the Works dearly needed the feedback and fixes. I took it as yet another reason to close the forum.

However, there is a new Management now with impeccable credentials. I am hoping that this new regime will be more interactive with the Community. They recently reached out on another matter and I responded. I just now sent a note on this issue, testing the waters so to speak. Let's see if I get turned down flat. (Fingers crossed)


Yes. I understand and supposed that is was it is. I am not looking at this as a solution. Merely a way to relieve some of the pressure. If it is too tight it will not be helping the friction. (perhaps) In my case, in my Morgans and other cars, I have also lessened or increased the wiper/screen friction by altering the shape of the wiper arm..as well as changing the wipers.


Yes. That is the first thing. We need a clean base datum. BTW, do you have a little torque wrench at hand? https://shorturl.at/gsGU4


Key observations. We could shortcut this solution if we can talk to the designer. Let's see what happens on that end.


Thank you Heinz. Yes, that will additionally confirm that the issue is caused by too much drag at the windscreen/wiper interface.

gmg

Interesting thread, it is amazing just howw much technicality can appear relative to discussion on relatively simple issues....? OK I am guilty of that myself from time to time...(-:

My old +8 Mog has what I imagine are original MMC fitted wiper blade types... ? I replaced them with a spare set of the original pattern that Kevin supplied with the car, the original blades suffering rubber rot after circa 20 years..

I have never suffered wiper judder on my old +8. I wonder if more modern blade designs may be in use, that the angle of the very edge of the blade as it presents it`s self to the screen, may be such that it is not being dragged across the glass, but presented as if scraping across the surface, more likely if the blade rubber has hardened somewhat..?

Sure the end profile of the blade rubber should be such that the section presenting the edge of the blade to the screen can flip and flop relative to the direction of the wiper arm arc, which then allows it to drag across the screen in both directions of the arc..?

On my old blades such is their design that the whole blade assembly can flip and flop easily on the arm, such is the amount of play in the area around the juncture of both. I suspect were they a tight fit that the blades would perhaps be less effective..

I have known of windscreen de-icing sprays that rotted blade rubbers. Might also be worthwhile checking the washer bottle additives, if you have any in use.. ?

I have been rough at times cleaning windscreen if contaminated, even to the extent of using soft grade steel wool and a spot of paint thinners.... Yeah you don`t want to be damaging paintwork from dripping thinners. Also if you get the screen really clean and have not also cleaned the possibly contaminated wiper rubbers, then you could just spread the crud back over the screen...?

Just thinking in type...in the hope it might help. Of course I could be entirely wrong.... again..!!! (-:

Would it be possible to eliminate the spindle play as a cause by using a tooth pick to poke some PTFE tape down the spindles (leaving a bit poking out so easily removed if it makes things worse!) ?

Thanks everyone for the suggestions so far. Heinz, your suggestion is very logical and could be a indicator to start with. I will give it a go on Sunday and report back. I have also ordered some basic windscreen cleaning products that will clean the windscreen without leaving anything on the screen and should remove any previously applied coatings ( if it has any )..

Lorne, yes I have a range of torque wrenchs 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 drive and all in calibration.. I also have an American pull gauge but only at low poundage..
Regarding the Allan ( hex) screw that secures the wiper blade cap/arm to the wiper spindle, my experience on our Plus Six is that if this is not snugged up tight the wiper arm will eventually work loose on its spindle and will slip on the spindle or detach. I do not have a torque value for that screw fitting, but that also applies to most of the car, the only torque given to an owner is the wheel nut torque in the Ops manual that comes with the car.

I believe a Tech contact into the factory would be such a good thing if an owner/operator had issues and needed advice. The CX owner presently has nothing in the way of parts schematics or wiring information, so even less than most Trads...I cant even compare part numbers !. The MMC is semi forcing CX owners to use their main dealers, but I have found this route to be less than ideal, plus in the summer it takes weeks/months to get a car booked in and looked at, let alone fixed.

Thanks Luddite.. Yes I follow your reasoning.. Sadly the blades are less than 6 months old and the rubber feels compliant. The wiper arm blades are also adjusted on their arms so they present a ( non loaded ) angle to the screen and the rubber is not loaded in one direction. The blades themselves are a good fit on their arms. I have semi discounted the blade design as an issue as the original MMC blades juddered even worse. I am thinking about the screenwash though, as when the car was returned from the factory prior to Christmas the judder was not as bad as it is now, it was still there, but not as severe.

Hi Paul.. It does not appear possible to temp reduce the play at the fulcrum pin on the wiper arm. The fulcrum pin comes from and through the outer arm and then through the inner section which is part of the arms end cap that goes over the main spindle. The play seems to be in the clearance between the pin and its through hole in the arms end cap. So its blind to gain access to.

[/i]Dave. I am still information gathering. I won't offer much concrete until I have exhausted that route. I haven't heard from the Factory on who the point man at the supplier is.

However, I HAVE heard from someone I trust that the CX wipers are better than the older stuff George and I have. It is stronger and has far fewer moving parts. That being said, I have had the older system locally repaired for a pittance. The magnets in the electric motor failed on one of my Plus 8s 30 years ago. As well, we KNOW where to source the older stuff (new or used)[i]. I too want more substantial and prettier wipers.

Here is something to add to your data bank. I can also provide a MUCH larger resolution.

L.

I would also check the wiper motor is receiving full 12+ volts when the engine is running, low voltage & the additional drag of posh wiper blades could induce judder

CX models have very complex electrics & as we know some owners have reported issues with dash modules, mystery flat batteries, etc