Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Maintenance & Servicing Fitting Brake reaction bars

Oh! forgot to say!
Those early examples of cross head stays were like mooring your dingy with the QE2 anchor chain, well done Lorne for digging that one up from the archives!

Hi Craig,

Thanks for sharing the image. These look like the bars supplied by Librands (which would make sense considering Williams fitted them), and look like they could be slotted because the top fitting does seem bias to one end.

These are the bars I recieved from Librands:-


On your car you have the washers under the top oiler bolt, so I can see how the washers would disperse the torqued load over the slotted hole, but on my car I have no washers, and only the hexagon head would be acting on the edges of the slot. This does not feel me with a great deal of confidence considering the size of hexagon to slot width, so I think I will try and change these for alternative type.

This is the top oiler bolt arrangement on my car:-

Thanks everyone for all the advice and input.

I seem to have started a faliure modes and effects debate, but interesting never the less!

Whilst I wait to change the reaction bars I have recieved, I thought I would pose another question and perhaps start yet another debate

The reason I wanted to fit these bars is becuase my 2002 4/4 suffers from vague steering at times. It can sometimes feel like I'm driving a boat with constant steering correction needed. This seems to be more evident on uneven road surfaces.

The car itself has only done 4k miles (it was left idle in a garage for a long time before being passed onto me). I have been advised by another Morgan owner that the steering effect could simply be that the Kingpins and bushes are not properly bedded in yet, due to lack of mileage?

I have checked and both NS and OS Kingpins are working and not ceased.

So after lots of reading and research on this matter, I thought I would first try fitting Brake reaction bars and seeing if that helps. After all they are an inexpensive and highly recommended upgrade.

Does the collective brains of Talk Morgan have any other suggestions that I could also consider, and/or is the BRB's a good place to start (before I start having to shell out lots of cash)?

Thanks again.

So is experience and the evidence of one's eyes. Every Morgan trad chassis is a different mystery, which is why spending money on one-size-fits-all solutions disappoint so often. Trust me, the buyers of expensive aftermarket add-ons never mention anything when their purchases are found wanting out of embarrassment for their first try reviews. They swear the suppliers that remove the lot to silence. (THERE is a freebie bit of gossip for you!)

My information comes from observation and personal experience. Yes, I have been accidented back and front. The rear impact was 40+mph (60+ kph) when we were standing still thankfully with the clutch fully depressed, all according to the insurance expert analysis and police report ...btw, as it is a UK forum and a British car I try to confine myself to British terminology and spelling, old habit). My Morgan flew 11+meters in the air, the rear tyres exploded on landing and the car kidded another 7 meters with sparks flyjng from the rear rims like an American 4/7 fireworks display.

Why did we survive? The experts were quite amazed at that. It was because of the [b]miraculous Morgan trad chassis[/b]. Very cool. Protection merely takes a few tweaks from stock. But it all made me a religious and devoted student of the Morgan trad chassis. Aside from creating a no-other-car feel, it is both an unknowable (each trad chassis is or becomes different) part of the suspension but also a most important safety feature. I will NOT prejudice that. Even in a mild impact, the invading vehicle rides up the bumper into the petrol tank pushing it into the axle, or anything the MMC unwisely fixed the the axle's rear (pre-1993 brakes). The rear chassis and wood tub rolls up and absorbs impact forces.


Really! THANK YOU. I will change mine this summer, when we return to Canada following your lead. I will also add it to gomog. As I noted, there is no downside to this. It merely adds redundancy at worst. Please give me the details. The problem is that aftermarket additions, especially the most costly ones, are ever crash-tested.

BTW, I agree on fittings, ss or whatever. I only buy those where their grade is published. I used to use John Worrall but also an American company supplying the motorcycle community
Gardner Westcott. Yes..I agree, Canadian winters are too long! 5 months to fettle. But consideiring my mileage, it is wise to make one's Morgan bullet-proof.

Lorne

I am not sure that brake reaction bars will correct the symptoms you describe. That vagueness and wandering is something I sense on our 2024 4/4 when the tyre pressures are incorrect.

How old are the tyres?

What tyre pressures are you running on the front?

Because they are very light, Morgans can be very sensitive to tyres and tyre pressures.

I am not sure that any other brand of bar is going to be much better. Why not simply slip a washer under the king pin nut?
Also, I agree with Paul on checking the age of the tyres. Old hardened rubber can really mess up the handling, so if they are more than about 8 years old, it’s time to consider renewal.

My two cents? Assuming your steering (castor, camber, toe-in is correct), the tyres (the tread is evenly worn and you are running with the right pressure) and the rims are in order (balanced) your problems could be resolved with the bars. Without the latter, you will have a wandering feeling when braking..which varies with the speed and force you are braking with. But they will not, per se, change much going straight.

You can also consider your wheel bearings and wheel wobble.

Try these simple tests? Jack your front wheels enough off the ground so that they can spin freely. With hands at 3and 9 o'clock, try to wiggle the wheel to one side and the other.
Also, set up a box adjacent/parallel to one wheel at a time. Place a pointer (a pencil will do) on the box with its point 1 cm from an easy point of the rim to see by you sitting in front at the height of the pointer. Spin the wheel. Do you see the distance between the rim edge and the pencil point varying? You can also try it using the tyre as a reference.Such things make us feel astute.


GOOD. No harm in properly installed BRBs no matter what the results.


Very little in the Morgan trad suspension area costs anything much...perhaps the front suspension rebuild is the most expensive, if it is done by hiring people. AND, it can be made a forever area with graded hardchromes. eMog fellas found that the MMC ss kingpins wore faster than the Devol plastic bushes they were once mated with! The front and back merely needs to be set up properly and then regular maintenance will allow them both to last for years. My very fussy wife thinks it sublime after 400,000+ kms and falls asleep instantly. I have heard her snoring on three continents, and countless countries, states and provinces.

Lorne

Potts,

All great advice and comment above especially Lorne in that they all drive differently and need fettling as per the car and drivers preferences!

Tyre's, well you'd be surprised how they will effect the drive. If you are sitting on the tyre's the car has for all that storage time they will be crap! regardless of what they look like! Fortunately they are fairly cheap tyres!

Where are you based, Its possibly time to get an experienced morganeer to drive, assess and look at the car. If this is your first experience of Morgan driving all I can say is they drive very differently to a modern car, actually in a lot of ways better! as its all about driver and car.

A driver used to them will know whether its driving correctly or not, or what is not working and probably how to start to correct any issues.
It really isn't about guessing what might help or listening to some who will confidently tell you " ah you need this doing" Firstly the car has to drive like a Morgan and then you can start to think how you want it to drive!

Thanks Paul,

The tyres are the originals (so nearly 22 years old). They have been on my mind to replace, and I querried their age and condition at the last MOT, but the garage I use (and trust) said they couldn't see any issues and becuase the car has been well looked after their condition looks fine.

That being said, I am planning to replace them, and based on yours and others feedback it just gives me more motivation.

I run them at 1.5 bar all round (as per the manual)

Hi Deejay,

Yeah I have also considered a washer, but then I need to source one or make one at the correct size, and I'm then relying on frictional forces to hold the bar in the correct place. If a jobs worth doing then ..........