Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Maintenance & Servicing Wire wheel Tyre fitting and balancing

The original tyres on my 2017 Plus 4 still have plenty of tread after 25k miles but are "getting on a bit". So after reading about how tyres deteriorate over time, I'm thinking it would be wise to change them soon.

Having also read that some tyre places can screw up both fitting and balancing of splined wire wheels, I'm looking for advice on any tyre specialists reasonably local to the Kendal (Cumbria) area who have a proven track record for doing things well, with the right kit (cones, stick on weights etc).

Any experience, anyone, please? TIA!

Sorry no idea re your area.
The key points are to lever the tyre off carefully from the rear to avoid damaging the silicone seal.
Have them replace the schroeder valve on the metal valve bodies otherwise you end up with rubber valves.
I always provide a guide on jacking points & the tyre pressures as otherwise some fitters go for 38 psig.
I loosen the wheel nuts at home and provide a socket based tool for them to use. When you get it home check they haven't overtightened them.

I know how easy it is to damage the silicone seal Keith that gives the spoked wheel tubeless tyre properties. Suffice to say don't be tempted to adjust spokes however slightly - you will damage seal, although I managed local repairs on mine as below.



I found my local village tyre supplier did have the cones to balance following a puncture and later damage of my own doing on a couple of wheels as above. I did ask them to be careful removing tyre(s) though and on each occasion just took the wheels over.

Maybe I just got lucky but just asking around may solve your quandary.

I have been driving at least one of my Plus 8s, at any one time, with wire wheels (30 years). My wife loves them.

1. I have a bespoke 3 eared spinner for the Canadian Morgans and had a bar length made that when used as far as I can manage, results in the correct torque.

2. I use Enzio's (Ferrari) recommendation for wire wheel torque rather than the MWS. I have never had a problem with the splines (they wear when loose) on my MMC hubs, my MWS adapters or the hubs on my wife's etype.

3. I have found that all my wire wheels, of any type or source, need re-tuning every 20-25k miles. I have the tools and do it myself without any prejudice to the silicone air seal. (10 wheels over 30 years)
I guess I am lucky, seriously. I have a wirewheel tuning fork and adjustment tool. I would never attmpt to adjust wires form the inside!!!!!
The key is that adjusting the wires is absolutely necessary when needed. On the one hand, most wire wheels are not strong enough to avoid anomalies over time, on the other hand, the tuning the wires correct that. One
sign of wonky wire wheels is when your tyre guy tells you that he is putting more and more balancing weights on your rims. I have my wheels balanced once a year. IMHO, if one does not want to tune one's wire wheels, buy
new ones regularly or switch to alloys. Morgan alloys are quite attractive. If you want others to do the wire tuning for you, motorcycle shops are great. Beware, a good driver's driving imperceptibly adjusts to defects. You don't
that to happen.

4. Normally, owners and the people they give to take care of their tyres put far too much air pressure in their Morgan tyres. It is one of the things all our trad Handbooks always get right! (or the best approximation to
start with.) To be more precise, I warm my tyres up with a short run, then do a patch test using damp tyres and newspapers.

Morgans are some of the lightest road cars in the world. Tyres are their most important component as they dictate comfort and comportment. Logic means their extremely low weight dictates extremely low tyre pressures. Their
all-important tyre "patch" on the road is a function of the car's weight and the tyre pressure. (duh!) Too much air and the car runs on in the middle of the tread, too little and it runs on the tread sides. Both are sad for the
driver/passengers. I have a special MMC lightened Plus 8 and run at 20psi normally. My other two Plus 8s ran at 22 psi. This can be increased to 25psi if one wants to save on petrol on long motorway (aka Interstate, Autoroute)
driving. I don't bother anymore. We are so rrarely on such non-fun byways.

Here is a fine article by David Poole. https://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/wirewheelbalancing1.html Yes, wire wheels are a proper pain. But they are gorgeous.

gmg

When a spoke is adjusted by turning the nipple from outside the rim. if tightening the spoke, it will inevitably protrude further into the rim. This in turn is likely to damage the seal. Also, just by turning the nipple, if the seal is stuck to the inside of the nipple, again damage may occur.
What type of tool or method prevents that happening? Or, is it just luck?

Following above gomog post my strong advice is DO NOT attempt to adjust spokes in-situ on modern wire wheels with tubeless seal. I have the stainless 7J variant as supplied to MMC by MWS. I damaged the seals on two following minimal adjustments using a spoke key . You can see on my image above how easily this might happen if the spoke nut moves. The damage through thick layer of sealant was immediately apparent following tyre removal. Fortunately only one spoke was touched on each wheel and localised repairs have stood the test of time with the use of MWS supplied sealant.

Thank you for your responding post. I can't answer whether it was luck as (please click) I have never removed my rim bands to find out on any of the 15 wire wheels (3 vehicles) my family has
been blessed with. I have replaced rim bands or tape with my now adult children's bicycles in the day and, presently, my cafe racer. I have seen melted Dunlop rim bands frommy Morgan that
burned/melted but these are now wheels I merely hang on the garage wall as decoration.

BTW, paradoxically, you forgot to mention the cost of a rim band is negligible (4 pounds) and installation bands (which I prefer) or tape takes no time, merely a wait for the silicone to set. and not
all experts use silicone tho I recommend. They simple slip a new band or tape on. http://shop.mwsint.com/product_details.asp?id=268 The cost of silicone is not much more. I have always kept
both handy in case ...over 30 years now. I have done over 300,000kms on two wired wheeled cars for whatever that's worth to you. Makes me a member of the Morgan crash test dummy brigade. If it
is going to happen it happens to us first. (wryly) Many experts use tape and no silicone. But that lack is likely what makes Dayton and MWS goto suppliers..though there are much better, there are more
that are not. The gomog Help Inbox suggests that rim bands and silicone are best. Redundancy means no leaks. You could have cured your issue with a 3.00 expenditure with MWS.

Your attempt to re-true your wire wheels was wise and brave. My compliments. But don't give up yet. One learns little from success. You must have found one or another wheel askew, just as
I have pointed out must happen and then logically attempted to rectify that. That, after all, is the reason wire wheels are all adjustable. Non-wire wheels, though much stronger, are much harder
to set right, needing an expensive special machine that forces the rim, with great pressure to regain the shape it once had. Wire wheels came first and with easy tools made for that adjustment task.
With respect, who can adhere to a recommendation that suggest that one should never adjust adjustable wire wheels. Doesn't make sense. I am aware that most classic car owners never adjust
their wire wheels. That is not good, but most moggers don't do many things they should in this era. You (apparently) and saw the need and that is very much to your credit. Diagnosis is 90% of repair.

Perhaps it would help yourself and us if you told us (Which tools and method you use. How exactly did you address the job?) Perhaps some here can help. As noted, your logic suggests
the only way to right a wire wheel is to toss it. That is dire for all of us. To buy new after each bad clunk or 20k miles. And the older 60 spoke wires need far more attention than the later 70s+s. And MUCH
much for bicycles and motos. I imagine you repaired the caused damage you caused and displayed above? Sent off the wheel to someone? It would have been unwise to run the way that rim is. Easy to
repair however. It would be good for the community to have the step-by-step instructions for repair or replacing rim bands and silicone. Can you help with these. I shall add them to gomog
along with the advice from other moggers. MWS will also help, they sell many rim bands. All wire wheel suppliers sell them. Width should fit the place you find your fittings on your rims, and changing the
bead strip is wise as well. Simply cut the bands to match the width needed.

Without adjusting your wire wheels, what do you suggest the wire wheel world do? I am curious. It is not fun driving with non-true wheels. They affect handling and ruin tyres. When it comes to wire wheels
the French have a saying: il faut souffrir pour être belle. The only advantage of wire wheels, outside of aesthetics, is that we can often repair them ourselves at home, which is not
the case with other rims. Though I deeply respect your good will, your advice would take that from us, something that has never happened before, to Morgan or any other classic car community.

gmg

When I talked to MWS they do not recommend rim bands for tubeless wires. They insist the silicone has to be replaced.

I thought rim bands (rubber or cloth) were just to protect the spoke nuts and any protruding spoke from damaging the inner tube. I cannot see how they would function (reliably at least) as an airtight seal for tubeless tyres

I also now recall speaking to MWS after my self inflicted debacle. They did say if the damage was very minor I could probably get away with a localised repair to sealant, otherwise full replacement.

They sell Dowsil 1080 silicone RTV adhesive sealant for the job BTW which requires 48 hours to fully vulcanise.

Richard that is also my knowlege.

But you have to be happy that you have tubeless rims.

My 2005 (2006) 4/4 was delivered by Morgan with tube type rims.
So I have rim bands but I also hat to flat tyres in the last years