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Originally Posted by CLPlusFour
I Head the same problem. PlusFour MY2022 with wire wheels. Problem was solved by my dealer.

Out of interest do you know what the fix was that your dealer did? Thanks

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They add grease but after 500 km the noise comes again.
End of august i have to go for the first time to the Belgian MOT.
I hope they will not ear it.

Last edited by thierry242; 20/06/24 11:50 AM.
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Originally Posted by thierry242
They add grease but after 500 km the noise comes again.
End of august i have to go for the first time to the Belgian MOT.
I hope they will not ear it.

Allo, allo, you will only ear this once........ rofl


Ruut Bianchi
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Morgan 4/4 4-seater 1990 Royal Ivory
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Originally Posted by Neil A
Originally Posted by CLPlusFour
I Head the same problem. PlusFour MY2022 with wire wheels. Problem was solved by my dealer.

Out of interest do you know what the fix was that your dealer did? Thanks

Sorry I had no feedback from my dealer


Clemens

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It is a lack of grease on the splined output shaft and the corresponding female spline of the wheel AND the taper at the inner end of the splined shaft. I removed my rear wheels on Sunday and undertook the necessary re-greasing. Splines were bone dry.

In my (limited) experience, driving in very wet or hot weather definitely exacerbate the issue. I can also confirm that the louder it gets the less grease is in place and by implication, a more rapid wear pattern is likely to develop. I hasten to add that this is an assumption (but not unreasonable) on my part.

I'm afraid it's a case of periodically removing the wheels (when the clonking becomes audible again) and reapplying graphite grease to the necessary areas. I would have reasonably expected this to not be necessary between services (based on the MMC recommended service intervals), however, this has not proved to be the case.


Andy
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Incidentally, if removing the wheel(s), make sure the wheel nuts (or spinners) are torqued up with the wheel unloaded (i.e. not touching the ground).

This is necessary to ensure the wheel seats correctly on the taper of the output shaft. Torquing the wheel up in a loaded situation does not guarantee that the wheel is properly seated. A final application of torque (or belting the spinners) should be undertaken once the wheel is in the loaded position.


The (unpublished) torque figure for wheel nuts is 280Nm. This requires a long torque wrench! I set mine to 200Nm and decided to let physics do the rest!


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It would be too nice if a Morgan no longer had to be greased very regularly. Even if it has migrated from the front to the back.


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Originally Posted by AndyMog57
1. I can also confirm that the louder it gets the less grease is in place and by implication, a more rapid wear pattern is likely to develop.
2. I'm afraid it's a case of periodically removing the wheels (when the clonking becomes audible again) and reapplying graphite grease to the necessary areas.
3. torqued up with the wheel unloaded (i.e. not touching the ground). necessary to ensure the wheel seats correctly on the taper of the output shaft.
4. (unpublished) torque figure for wheel nuts is 280Nm. This requires a long torque wrench! I set mine to 200Nm and decided to let physics do the rest!

Very well done Andy! But only because I agree with everything you say. cheers

The less the spinner torque, the greater the chance of minute wiggle room. Any wiggle room creates spline wear, the greatest villain to wire wheel longevity, both the hub and wire
wheels sides. Spline wear cannot be repaired by an owner. The engine created torque at the wheels of a 950 kilo car is massive. So some minor additions to your excellent post.

A. The thick application of grease (I use wheel and bearing grease) allows even less wiggle room. You are correct, the "clunk" may be your warning sign of needed grease repacking.

B. Enzo Ferrari, who favored wire wheels with good reason would applaud you and so would most winners of old. Adjustable wire wheels are made to be trued and adjusted,
track & road side. His torque was a bit more than yours! BTW, I made my life easier by buying a three ear spinner adapter and a bespoke breaker bar of a length measured to create the
torque I wanted merely by leaning on it to my reasonable most. I changed too many sets of spinners the first 5 years by whacking them. Spinners and wood spinner protectors are too
flimsy for my legendary hammer strength. banghead wink

So my experimental MWS wire wheels, a gift from the Works 21 years ago and their splines are still great. I also tune my wheels regularly, as Enzo did. Technologically, they are brilliant
wheels, far more than merely aesthetically pleasing. My only problem with MWS (bless them) is their torque recommendations which are decidedly wonky.
https://www.mwsint.com/site/cms/contentviewarticle.asp?article=664. They will tell you that they will self-torque, but that simply does not happen. I have tested other Morgans. They tighten
a little bit themselves but not enough for Ferrari or experience. I speculate that the MWS are trying to protect their product. (shrug)

BTW, there are other things that cause Morgan rear "clunking". Over time one gets to distinguish one clunk from another. laugh2

1. Most common are the axle u-bolts. All Morgan Factory u-bolts I have been sent, stretch. Is there better ones now? Even worse, most people and dealers do not tighten them sufficiently
and/or reuse them at each service. I avoid all that by using thicker upgraded graded u-bolts. A good mechanic like Cain Pouton will find some for you.

I used to change mine u-bolts every 10,000 miles, though that is does not seem necessary with the upgraded thicker bolts and their grading. You will need to buy or increase size of the
axle plate holes. Use Stover nuts, graded and rustless. Nylocks cannot be torqued reliably. The Stovers are a PIA, but will last forever and never loosen, though the Factory u-bolts will still
stretch. .

2. One can, on very rare occasions, have clunking noise develop caused by the bolts/nuts used where the propshaft is bolted to the diff/axle assembly. Again, use graded bolts and stover nuts,

None of this stuff is done by any dealers I know unless discussed with savvier owners who trust them. Please remember that most dealers today are in competition with each other. One
cannot add cost to a common part or service and without risking credibility, whether it is fully justified or not.

Originally Posted by Heinz
It would be too nice if a Morgan no longer had to be greased very regularly.

Greasing became more of a moot point in the last 20 years of the trads. I was brought up to grease the front every 1500 miles. But then hardchromed kingpins became common (the MMC ss
pins wear frown2) and that is all we needed for a forever front end regardless of the bush material, IMHO. I have been using the DEVOL bushes the MMC tried for the last 21 years and
100,000 kms on my one remaining Morgan. I still have no play in front. But I changed my kingpins to graded hardchromes almost on the car's arrival. Devols supposedly squeak when they
want grease. Mine have never done so. When mogging I do not grease them for 5000+ kms. (I am trying to convince my wife that it is HER job!)

That being said, being forced to regularly look under a Morgan, or any car, is a good thing.

gmg

Last edited by gomog; 28/06/24 03:38 PM.
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Thank you for your most excellent post, gmg.

It would seem that regular wheel removal is required for 'grease servicing'. That being said, and as most wire wheel owners know, the only way to keep them clean is to remove them. A back breaking chore! It's also a concern as the manual states that the car should not be jacked up (on a single jacking point). I suppose this is because the bonded aluminium chassis of the CX cars could potentially twist. So, the only solution is one of the total car jacking systems that lifts the entire car using all four jacking points simultaneously. All well and good (not to mention expensive and yet more stuff to store!) until a dreaded puncture manifests. This is the very reason I elected not to have a spare wheel!

So, do any wire wheel owners have any good tips for polished wire wheel cleaning that doesn't involve wheel removal? There are many spray on solutions out there but I am reluctant to try them after an Autoglym technical chap told me a story about their wheel cleaning product and polished wire wheels which didn't end well for the wheels (and proved expensive for Autoglym)!

Cheers,

Andy


Andy
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Here are my ideas!!
And many may disagree!

Wire wheel cleaning can become an obsession and (IMHO) take away pleasure from driving your Morgan.

I like keeping my 20+ year old 4/4 clean and on occasion, I do give a really good once over.

I have always carefully jacked one wheel at a time, but only until the wheel is just clear of the ground.

For most wheel cleans, I use a garden type squeezy spray bottle, combined with a spray of mountain bike cleaning spray and an old paint brush.

The car needs to be really filthy to do a full wheel off clean. Then I grease the kingpins, grease the hub splines and damper blades, with copper slip.

You have your car, you make your choice!

My 4/4 normally will cover 3k miles a year, with usually one or two trips to Europe (Le Mans, Montlhéry etc.)


I like to admire beautifully presented cars, but I more admire well used cars with a patina and a history.
“A car without a history, has no soul”!?

Bud
4/4 - Stanley
:
Ps just realised this was posted in the Plus Four and Plus Six section - oops!
So apologies for my 4/4 ramble.
Pps I also use motorcycle chain spray on the leaf springs and UBolts

Last edited by Budster; 03/07/24 01:43 PM. Reason: I forget about these ‘new fangled Plus Fours and Pus Sixes

Bud
4/4 "Stanley"
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