Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Trad Shock Absorbers

I can only speak from personal experience but with my own findings further supported by the additional evidence I've pieced together from Monty's file, it seems quite clear the original owner really wasn't happy with the car's ride and handling from day one, sadly this seems to be a recurring theme with owners of Trad Morgans.

Let's break it down seperating the front from the rear:

FRONT SUSPENSION

To solve the front end issues the original owner made a smart but expensive choice, he commisioned the complete deleting of Morgan's vintage sliding pillar arrangement replacing it with the Mulfab front wishbone conversion. Other than it's use of AVO dampers, a brand of damper I'm not a massive fan of and will soon replace with vastly superior Bilsteins, I would describe Monty's front suspension as excellent, Peter Mulbury who designed the wishbone setup clearly knew what he was doing.



REAR SUSPENSION

Unfortunately the Morgan specialist Monty's original owner entrusted the rear suspension improvement project to was less skilled!

Disapointingly that so-called Morgan specialist completely overlooked the true issue, instead of correctly diagnosing the terrible soft rear springs the specialist tried to solve Monty's wayward rear end with a set of AVO dampers. Of course all that happened was the poor AVO's that aren't a great damper in the first place, had a really hard life so didn't last long at all and as the heavily over worked AVO dampers rapidly lost resistance the situation only got worse.

With the terrible rear springs still in place and whipping uncontrollably due to poor/no tempering the damping from the AVOs soon became nonexistent, the next thing to go were the AVO bushes that are well known failure point amongst owners of other classic cars using AVOs. Being made from a poor and failure prone polyurethane material rather than a proper suspension grade rubber as used by serious damper manufacturers such as Bilstein these bushes dont have the longest life in a decent setup, but in a Morgan with floppy rear springs and shot AVOs I found these aweful bushes would only last 500 miles at best.

Worse still, I discovered that so called Morgan specialist who fitted the AVOs had also used standard M10 bolts on the top damper mounts, this when high tensile 7/16" bolts should be used, the smaller diameter M10 bolts created slop with the subsequent movement resulting in the soft M10 bolts shearing. What a mess, and all because the Morgan specialist had completely failed to correctly diagnose the true route cause issue, the soft rear springs!

To solve the issue I selected and fitted the following components:

1. A set of BCC anti-tramp rear springs properly made from the correct grade of steel and tempered in Sheffield by Owen springs

2. A set of quality Bilstein rear dampers sourced from SSL

3. Two 7/16 x 6.5" Grade 8 high tensile bolts

4. Two 7/16 (deformed thread) stove nuts & two 7/16 Nylocks to act as jam nuts over them

5. A washer pack to suit and used to replace the dreadful thin wall tube spacer as used by Morgan

6. A Panhard rod to eliminate lateral axle movement

The fundamental route cause of all Monty's rear end issues were those criminally bad rear springs used by Morgan, if anyone is still running them they need to be removed and weighed in for scrap, there are lots of replacement options out there but I chose the BCC anti-tramp springs that have proved to be excellent. According to Techniques Morgan who fitted them for me, the BCC springs are a bit softer than the ones they offer so if you want a firmer ride you may prefer the Techniques springs, personally I would highly recommend the BCC springs for street driving.

My next improvement will be to upgrade Morgan's rather weak and amateurish top damper mount brackets to a far stronger fully caged design, the current tube arrangement is very poor in my opinion although it does seem Morgan were aware of this as Monty did benefit the later version that's been reinforced with gussets, it’s fundamentally still a poor design that needs upgrading to a proper bracket that supports the top damper mount like any other car.

I should also point out at the same time as fitting the suspension upgrades I did also go for lowering blocks that drop the car by 40mm and centralise the rear axle so the wheels look correct in the arches. These lower blocks seem to be criticized on Talk Morgan, however for fear of stating the obvious, the only negatives I’ve found with them is the inevitable loss of ground clearance and some suspension travel.

To fix the ground clearance issue I had the crossmember neatly modified and the stupid lip on the bellhousing removed, you can read about these very successful changes here:

https://www.talkmorgan.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/800136/monty-gets-a-nip-n-tuck

As stated above the lowering blocks also remove suspension travel in direct proportion to how much they lower the car, actually it would be more correct to say the lowering blocks steal travel from the damper. Currently I still have enough travel for a comfortable ride under 90% of all driving conditions, however, during extremely enthusiastic driving on a very bumpy road the axle can lift on the rebound.

The solution is linked to the improved fully caged damper top mounts I have planned, when designing these new stronger brackets we will also raise the mounting point by 40mm giving the damper back its full working stroke. There’s definitely space to raise it which will stop the rear suspension striking the damper’s bump stop, which in some extreme cases can cause the axle to lift taking the tyres off the road surface for a split second.

While this is exciting it needs fixing, as does the strength of the damper top mounts too, fortunately both extending the damper travel and making a better job of the rear damper top mounts will fix both issues with a matching pair of better designed brackets

To help explain all the above better I thought a short video would be the best way to cover the history of Monty's rear suspension, and to clearly show how I fixed the issues:



I hope this helps, the core message here is the springs used by Morgan were dreadful, and they must be replaced before fitting any other upgrades. If you just fit new dampers and leave the soft rear springs in place, as was the approach of the so called Morgan specialist who tried to fix Monty’s wayward rear end, all that’ll happen is you’ll just destroy those new dampers, smash their bushes to bits and even snap the top bolts!

Great post. Thank you.. I do not agree with much of it though but I enjoyed reading it!!. Please post more.You and I are basically the same, equipped to analyze only by trial&error (hereinafter "TE". I have no engineering training (thank the car Gods for that). Theory presumes a identical starting point. Morgan don't have one.

I have what I read, what I have experienced and the 100s (1000s?) of Morgans I have been asked to help sort in the last few decades. That doesn't say anything. One can use the same non-ideal choice over and over again and think it is carved in stone for no reason other than they have been using it forever. The MMC even fell into that trap in the front for a lifetime! Professionals fall victim to that more than amateurs as theory can be restrictive and inapplicable. It is a good question on who changes the world more, theory or T&E. Einstein or Edison. .

In these areas you address the trad Morgans' astounding lack of weight and its flexing frame, each one different from other trads let alone normal autombile fare. cars. T&E is smarter method, trad by trad..like you and I have done. I have tried everything, including Biltsteins. Unlike most people, if a new component isn't better than the one on the car, I toss it. I try most things with as little time as possible beyond my last ride with something else. I only know a few others who are/were like that. Most owners keep on anything they opted and have paid for. My wife is my harshest judge. She knows she is going to be spending weeks at a time on her side of the car.

BUT there is an ultimate Law for T&E that I learned from Luddite almost a quarter of century ago. Namely, if you want to analyze any component and learn anything about it, you can only change one component at a time. and see if that improves anything or degrades it. If not, toss it unless you choose to try it again later with another original starting point. More than one component from a specific datum does not prove or teach anything. One falls into the trap of a factorial multiplication of possibilities which mean nothing. I learned that one 22 years ago from Luddite.

For example, if you change 4 components affecting the same area simultaneously, the possibility of what right or wrong is 4x3x2x1 is 24. Nothing learnedt teaches nothing. Too vague. A happy result means you blame EVERYTHING that was on it before and laud everything that you put it on it after. But that conclusion is anything but empirical.

For example, in this case, the very best dampers will do little for lousy leaf springs.

Keep on investigating. The trad community very much needs more like at this point in time


Great idea. I will address your post in two parts. FRONT and REAR

L.

Dave it strikes me. (willing to be corrected) that your Bilstein dampers do not have enough compression available. Trads need around 216mm. (closed length) & 305mm in extension. However all morgans are different.

It looks worse than it is in the video because the bump stop was sat in the mid position on the damper rod, so the gap looks deceptively small, far smaller than it really is in fact.

For the record Monty's suspension has 41.37mm of travel at full droop, that's actually quite a bit of rebound, but he currently only has 18mm of compression travel plus an estimated additional 5mm of bump stop compression to give a rather poor 23mm of compression travel. To put this into perspective an MX5 offers 53mm if compression travel, so Monty currently relys on his compliant sidewall Continental Eco Contact tyres to give him a half decent ride, but the new brackets will solve all that by giving me back the damper travel I lost

I definitely lost damper travel with the lowering blocks fitted, although it must be said Monty does ride very well now and obviously way better than when he did when fitted with Morgan's appalling springs and a set of knackered AVOs. The truth is it's only when I'm really pressing on over a bumpy roads that things get interesting, and let's not forget we're not exactly living at the bleeding edge of suspension design here, what we're working with is a big old heavy cast iron beam axle (with diff) supported by cart springs controlled by a small pair of telescopic dampers.

I was an early adopter of the SSL front suspension and, almost as soon as it became available; the rear 5 link suspension.

It is enough to say that I have a pair of 5 leaf springs and a set of Roadster front coils that have hardly been used that I would happily sell if anyone wants them.

My opinion is clearly different to others and I have no intentions of getting into a public debate about my choice.

If anyone cares to discuss the SSL suspension with me and the history behind my decision I would be happy to do so by Private Messages.

Peter,


You have a similar aged Plus 4 sport as I have just acquired, so all things being equal I would assume the same quality of parts were fitted to both our cars and probably presented the same when new. Mine has only just covered 5k miles and been in storage fir nearly 5 years, yet the suspension so far has been the most compliant of all my Morgans, with not too much bottoming out at the back.

When you changed to SSL front and rear what improvements did you find.

My 1994 +8 had done 27K. During this time it gradually developed the "nodding dog" syndrome meaning the whole front of the car would bounce up and down while driving. I make no pretense of understanding the theory behind Morgan's trad front suspension. I contacted Peter Ballard (SSL) who I found very helpful. I asked if the SSL system would stop the nodding dog and he said yes.
Having dismantled the front suspension I thought it a good opportunity to change the king pins for hard chrome ones which are widely recommended. There are those who would say (GoMog) only change one thing at a time in order to find what really works. I entirely agree but who wants to strip a front suspension twice when you can get away with once? New king pins and the SSL front suspension stopped the nodding dog completely. There was also the bonus of much lighter steering because the kit replaces the traditional steering damper blades with a bearing. So my +8 had great benefit from the conversion and new king pins.

Thanks, that's very helpful.
Hoping for some more +8 owners to come forward with their results

You misunderstood Calypso. My apologies. I was speaking to Montegue:s research (which intrigued me) and the testing/evaluating of
components and solutions..based on Luddite:s wisdom. In fact that is what you bought. The hardchromes you are now using are an
example, the steering races you fit are another. They have all been popularized and become part of our cars after long testing and
internet diebate. The greatest source of trad progress has always been ex-Factory. We trust others, most often the MMC. A car
purchase is the largest single assembly of unknown parts we will ever enter into.

After the first 2--3 years of my Morgan ownership, with my mileage I was redoing the front end every year! It was silly. The first time
feels you have accomplished something and after that it is merely a PIA. I became convinced that the car could be made simpler,
more reliable. [i, Most times they are the same thing[/i]. A lovely and comfortable hyper light car that is very performant.. Currently,
with a wise choice of front components,, you can have a simple reliable front end that never needs an regular refreshing.

Morgan did not do that. We did.

L.

A 200 mile drive today with that harshest of critics, Mrs F, in the passenger seat. She reports that the car is transformed. This is a very positive report as on our last long journey she started to grumble after 45 minutes.