Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) A bit torn - 4/4

So I have a 1959 Morgan, a 4/4 low miles low owner massive history car with Competition head installed in the 60's I believe to factory spec. I've spent around 120 hours doing minor jobs on it over the past month, a labour of love, from what was a very solid car (restored with new chassis in the 1980's) with no rot and which actually handles really well.

I'm a bit torn, I really enjoy tinkering and making things better, the car draws a lot of attention (which is good and bad) and is of course slow, slightly uncomfortable and best suited to short or medium journeys. I had wanted a Plus 4, traditional, lowish mileage, but this came up locally and I fell in love with it. I call it Buddy.

However, I don't wish to change engine to make it more of a tourer, as that would take away it's rarity and originality.

I am considering upgrading the ignition to electronic (it has new twin SU carbs), to give it a bit more oomph in 3rd, it flies in 1st and 2nd, but have tested the water with selling it, to upgrade to a Plus 4, maybe a 2012 to 2018 model, which the wife would actually want to go in.

Space at home is limited, and the car needs to be garaged, so it will be the case of one in, one out.

Is the Plus 4, traditional, a much more refined experience? These cars are not expensive compared to MG's etc, and are very simple to work on, but the usability is a little compromised (B roads and country lanes fine).

Just wondered if anyone has upgraded from an older 4/4 and regretted it.

Regret? No. But I did miss the simplicity of a mid 70s X-flow after going to a '93 1.8 Zetec.
Alongside the 70s 4/4 (8 years in my custody) I also ran a Rover engined +4, for 11 months. Same width as the then current +8. Lovely engine, but too blinking wide to safely get down my driveway. Also found it very difficult to judge proximity to hedges (particularly where they had walls hidden in them) so it was sold on.

Steve, I suggest you go and try driving a few, then you will be able to work out "how refined" the experience of a newer model is. There are lots of modification options for the Duratec engine, if that is your thing. I went the individual throttle bodies way which I am very happy with, not a monumental increase in power, but enough in the right places to make the drive more enjoyable (and to sound better!). I also found installing Suplex suspension to make the car much more driveable. I have no problems driving at 70mph on the motorway, but I tend to avoid that because it is exceedingly boring. Have also a look at 4 seaters, they are less windy and much more room for touring, if that is what you want to do.

Go and try a few, all I will say is that my Plus 8 is my forever car but the 4/4 Sport I recently got for our Son is an incredibly fun chuckable car with enough power and ability to get you into trouble should you overstep the mark.

If I wasn't a V8 nut for me the early lightweight 4/4 are the best produced, or a good 4/4 Sport just so much fun and 43 mpg with simple engineering

Good luck and enjoy driving a few..

Thanks for all the replies, and advice!

Not a lot of thinking shared so far on your thread Steve, so I thought to jump in...(-:

I`m NO expert on anything but happy to share my limited experiences.

That you are no stranger to tools and seem not to be averse to getting down and dirty helps create a foundation on which to attempt to assist you in making decisions which may suit YOU..

Seems you have for whatever reason jumped into ownership without asking the question "Which Morgan" first... Whereas I on the other hand being somewhat limited financially way back when, spent circa five years on Morgan forums from the mid 90`s on asking that which I thought was the logical question, hoping not to end up in a Morgan that might not suit, and like you I typed a bit of a CV relative to my mechanical ability, adding some of my vehicular history, the end result being that I ended up in a +8 which I have now owned for over 20 years, though in that time have only covered circa circa 30k miles in it, such have been other of life`s priorities.

I kinda gave up trying to make machinery "better" in my yoof, again limited budget determined that money was spent on cams and carbs, rather than brakes and roadholding, thus speed and noise were prioritised over creating a well balanced machine, which may well have had tyres older than myself on the wheels...!!! A m/cycle with an oil soaked rear tyre teaches a measure of respect relative to controlling a machine with a power band that kicks in from 4-6K...! Carried some of that over into cars, and it took a few decades to learn that balance was everything, thus as ever on a limited budget worked my way through the usual Brit sports cars bought as old t*rts everyone had already screwed to near death, and then discarded, trying to bring them back to life using my very rudimentary skillset and limited funds, I learned rather a lot, unfortunately it seems most of which has been forgotten these days...Sigh..!

Unlike those who may test drive this that or the other... I just bought that which I fancied at the time with a degree of research via my rather large back-catalogue of motoring magazines, in order to investigate which machine might suit whatever direction I wished to travel.... Test driving old t*rts can have it`s risks... and I have a few stories so related... (-: The main thing for me was that in the passage of time my repair capabilities had gone from working in the street, to eventually having my own shed in which to work in my spare time.

Over the years of feeding my petrol-head passions, I ended up working my way through three air cooled Porsches, the first of which as ever, was an old corroded t*rt in the truest sense, the second not as bad as the first, and by the time I came to own the third, although it was still a non runner, and with a measure of paint pox, but by far the better machine of the three...I was by that time a real fan of Porsche engineering principals, in terms of keeping things simple, and that form followed function, all of which well fitted my ideals of a truly balanced engineering design for a 2+2 all round sports car.

Priorities in life change and for a variety of reasons, long story short, (-: I ended up in search of a vintage motoring experience, and while the sort of vintage car that had performance enough to keep up with than modern traffic situations was well outside my ever limited budget... I imagined that a Morgan might just fit the bill..? That was when I joined the interweb and the first Morgan discussion group..

Did not intend this to be about ME, but wanted to give you an idea of how I came to think as I do relative to your question...rightly or wrongly...!

Back to YOU....Well I have kinda covered my thinking on improvement, having arrived at the stage where in Porsche ownership I was well used to a mix of performance and more importantly reliability, an engine which provides both can provide a sound basis on which to build a machine, seems to have potential to present a reasonable ownership experience..?

Morgans and ORIGINALITY are not two words that fit together too well, and much less so if you go back to the 50`s and beyond, where make do and mend was the initial way forward, giving way eventually to the 60`s and 70`s where the term disposable income entered the UK vocabulary, and the home mechanics had advanced from just keeping the old thing going, to tuning it up, with the marketplace offering all sorts of tuning goodies, some of that still exists today, though local accessory shops closed down in time as that generation aged and their tastes became a tad more "sophisticated" as might suit the more mature... (-: I am in my mid seventies, but at times it seems I have yet to grow up..(-:

Rarity and originality seem to suggest the next word in a sentence might be investment... I have to admit that when younger whichever sports car I might own was, all things considered, never likely to provide returns in excess of actual cost, but was thought to be the first thing to attempt to turn back into cash if push came to shove in terms of personal finances... I bought my old sports cars primarily as a hobby, though no doubt with a bit of man maths involved...(-:

My Morgan was initially bought to roar around the lochs and glens, but in time my good lady had ideas of touring a bit of Southern Europe which given my expectations of Trad Morgan`s design and build, combined with my knowledge-base from years spent on forums learning of just about every "foible" possible...!!! However, that my Morgan was rebuilt from the ground up as a tourer, by a garage business owning Morgan enthusiast who had paid special attention to making it as foible free as possible.. paid dividends for us touring France, Spain, and Italy....for sure there are more comfortable ways of taking on such mileages in a motor car, but adventure more than comfort was my good lady`s desire from the outset.... and I have to type, those trips created memories that have served me well in recent years... Thus Touring in any Morgan is worth considering, plenty of tales of such available on this forum..

Prior to actually buying what was to be my Morgan, I had only been a passenger in a 4/4 for a short run around a series of cones in a field at a classic car event, and did not even drive the Morgan I intended to buy, until I had paid for it, having a circa 270 mile drive home in February, with a mix of cold and wet hood-down driving in prospect, and in a concours condition +8, was bound to present a bit of a baptism and hopefully not of fire.... Made it home without issue and a smile literally frozen on my face... (-:

Next day I drove this concours condition Morgan up an unmade road at speed with stones flying, to get being precious about it over with, as opposed to facing death by a thousand cuts each and every time a stone hit it`s perfect paintwork over time..

I have ever looked at the 4/4 as perhaps being the most balanced of Morgans. but at the time I was wondering which Morgan... The idea of a Morgan with a Twink was initially thought to be ideal, as I was ever a Lotus fan boy in my yoof.... but that was not the way things worked out..

Given the weather this year I have made use of and enjoyed my old Morgan more than I imagined possible at this great age... What`s more to want..? (-:

Wishing you the best in your decision making process Steve, and hopes this ramble might assist you in some way or other..

Thanks for the experience you've shared. I feel the 4/4, with a sigma engine could be the perfect Morgan. Old school charm with modern drivetrain reliability. Easy enough to work on yourself but also from what I've seen can rack up the miles. The new CX does put me off, well dealer put me off when they told me it has issues and to get one under warranty if you do. The pre CX just seems easier to work on and the shaking, jiggling is kind of what appeals, I have a new rare hand built car which is like a surgical instrument, and a little too good.

The current car was an impulse buy. I expected a lousy old car but it was way better than I thought, the Aquaplane head, exhaust carbs, and lots of new parts, new chassis, body etc, it was a lot of car for the money and I just went for it. The thing has soul, not what I expected but more so, I needed to dip my toe in the water, you can always sell a good car, and even if I make a loss it has still been worth it for the learning curve.

I'm sitting here after 4 weeks and about 150 or more hours of tinkering, making perfect what I can, but I am left with a wonderful car, but I just have a desire to drive more than tinker. I enquired about a newer one today, although I'd much prefer to buy off an enthusiast directly.

I've a couple more jobs to do on the old car this week, and then will take a view. The admiring glances it gets on runs to the local town are lovely, but I'm less about that than enjoying challenges driving, like up and round Applecross. Just don't want a modern twist and go, as much as the Plus Six I drove was epic, it is just a little big for me and I do like a manual...

I think the plus four post 2014 or the gdi variant is the best of the bunch. It comes with the look of a traditional morgan but has many more refinements such as power steering heated seats galvanised chassis uprated kingpins good brakes
The power from the gdi is enough for fun on b roads and can hold its own on a motorway
I have driven lots of morgans of all ages and the gdi in my own opinion
Like all things morgan its personal choice but after 12000 trouble free fun filled miles I can not fault it

I quite like the manual steering, although in my 4/4 59 its very light. the galc chassis was from 2014, as they didnt do it for the first few years of the GDI?

Oh I believe the galv chassis was from late 90s -they went to something else from 2014, for touring I very much enjoy my V8 but as a chuckable sporty drive I believe the sweet spot may be a 1.8 4/4 or the later Sigma variant .