Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars My Morgan Sports Car Moving from A Roadster 3.7 to a Plus 6

Evening all,
Not sure if I am repeating a thread already availble if so please point me in the right direction, if not has anyone done the move. I would be very grateful for your thoughts whether it was good or bad.

Kind regards

John

No move to a manual cx plus four

Horses for courses. Love my Six. But no experience of the V6 or CX P4. A manual would be nice to try, but I like the auto box. Seems well matched to the blistering engine. But be careful of a fully aggressive right foot when in standard 'drive' mode, the kickdown lights up the rears, even with traction control.

I went for the straight 6cyl for the sound and smooth turbine-like purr and balance. Characteristics I value and which I think will keep me happy for years to come. That may feel less characterful to you than the V6 you're used to. The moderate performance advantage over the P4 is probably rarely a factor in real life driving. Although, even though I don't drive like I'm on track, I like that I can always call on the extra, if the road is right and the mood takes me. Then it is a very seriously quick thing.

The thing against the Six is, perhaps more so than a CX Four(?), it is evolution even further from the original Morgans' more simple charm.

So depends what you want next.

I bought the manual having tried a chipped version.
I prefer a manual. The P6 is also a tight fit in the garage .

Have driven my 3.7 Roadster, a manual Plus Four and a Plus Six back to back. An hour and a half in the latter two. The Plus Six is far more planted and solid feeling on the road compared to Plus Four due to weight and wider tyres seemingly but no more comfortable than its CX stable mate. Although its insanely fast, not so much more than my 3.7 Roadster though which for me gives an equal adrenaline rush although requiring more driver input. End result the visceral experience of driving my Roadster won.

We changed from a 3.7 to a Plus Six four or more years ago and have never looked back.. The main reason for change was the 3.7 clutch weight.. I tried a few mods to improve this, but in the end it started to bug me a fair bit. My left leg works fine but has had a few motorcycle related impacts over the years and did not like the clutch weight when in traffic.. We love our Plus Six, its a mid 2020 model, so we had a long period ( years ) of sorting its many issues.. it had most of the faults reported in this forum section.. it appears now sorted, we did 2.5K miles in three weeks last year touring France and it never missed a beat, we have now booked the ferry for another trip.. Its a more comfortable car than the 3.7, some would say the CX range feel a bit bland but the handling and ride seems better suited for modern roads. The biggest improvements made to our Plus Six so far have been 1. latest version of radiator.. I hope now this has fixed the issues, four changed so far! 2. Fitting the SSL suspension upgrade 3. Replacing the standard BMW auto gear selector ( purely asthetic reasons ) 4. We fitted new tyres all round last year more due to age than wear, and this has also improved the ride and grip a little.
You do need to be aware of the Plus Six engines power when putting yr foot down, but the same could be said for the 3.7
Dave

The Roadster 3.7 clutch issue came to my attention when an owner was lent one whilst his Plus Four was in for a brake change. He asked me if it was normal to be that heavy, which compared to mine it was. I'd never had issue with mine but during some pedal and linkage re-engineering I noted that it had no pedal mounted return spring which earlier Roadsters did up to at least 2014. The return action coming from the clutch itself plus master cylinders own internal spring. The second return spring of course adds to clutch pedal heaviness. It's a simple task to unhook it for immediate improvement although removal entails taking out assembly as below.





The work I did included replacing thrust washers with phospor bronze equivalents, one of which was missing anyway ex factory, plus changing to proper stainless clevis fork linkages on both pedals - note clevis thrust washers which are also not always present ex factory. This improved smoothness of pedal actions noticeably and remains so. Well worth the work IMO.

I think the best thing to do is go and drive one. Everyone will have preferences and different criteria for owning whatever model of Morgan they have.

I don't regret in the slightest moving from a series of trads to a CX automatic, as I found the controls especially the clutch but also including the steering (when not assisted) heavy especially on today's very congested roads. Where I note the biggest difference is in footwell, being a large frame guy, I found the trad footwells too cramped for comfort on longer journeys.


WIthout question the CX comfort seats and compliant suspension make long journeys far more pleasurable and comfortable and I don't miss not having to carry a grease gun whilst touring. Whilst the CX suspension is still firm, it's not bone shaking by any stretch and comparable to my Mercedes Coupe's firm suspension and just eats up the miles. The CX standard of equipment like eg air conditioning a boon. I haven't gone touring in a trad Morgan for years for some of the reasons mentioned, but now with the Plus Four It's back on the agenda as Sue can now drive the Morgan, where she found the later trad Morgans controls just too heavy for her

I did more or less exactly the same Richard, pulled the pedal box assy out rebushed/relubed ( and painted) etc and removed clutch return spring.. also found that the yoke/clevis pin adjustment was wrong and binding past mid throw on the brake.. It was all improved after this, but the left clutch leg still said enough in stop/start traffic. I still very much like the 3.7 for its rawness and overall feeling but as we use the Plus Six mainly for touring I find it is an easier beast to live with...for us it was horses for courses.. Its a pity the BMW straight six engine could not be swapped for an AMG V8 as we had in our C63.. Now that would be something.. in a straight line..

Morning Guy's

Many thanks for taking the time to reply...you have definitely given me food for thought.....I love the look of the Plus 6 however the roadster is not far behind it. Special thanks to Richard' I have just unclipped the Spring on the pedal box and the clutch return feel quite OK now. Brake reaction bars fitted new door stays in place and I will check today how many ATB's are fitted. Then roll on the Spring. I dont mind a little bit of tinkering as I can't touch my other vehicles ( High performance' even higher service bills but definitely no fiddling). I have no intention of driving the Morgan near its limit its not my style anymore so maybe I can avoid fitting a Panhard Rod...... we just want something different for the odd weekend or mid week excusions 'Up North'.

All that said if a nice Plus 6 comes to my attention you just never know.

Kindest Regards

John

It's almost a crime that MMC continued to offer brake reaction bars as an option only until end of Classic production. They improve front suspension integrity on all points of driving.

Hi John,

I recently switched to the CX chassis, after owning several pre-CX models

The difference is enormous on several levels :

- the aluminum chassis
- proper suspension
- modern comforts: air conditioning / automatic transmission / central locking...
- the performance!! BMW engines are very powerful and have excellent torque, the ZF transmission is a real treat.

I don't think I could ever go back to a pre-CX

My friend BertR switched from a Roadster3.0 to a PlusSix 1 year ago and is very happy with it. I myself made the switch from a trad 4/4 (which we keep in the family) tot a manual CX PlusFour beginning 2023. It's one of the last build PlusFours before the airbags and ESP came. I bought it new, wanted a manual and a traditional MotoLita steeringwheel. No regrets. I drove an automatic too, and that's very easy and fast (as a BMW driver I know the ZF autobox...), but I wanted the classic feel of manual gear changing. I know I'm part of a minority! My wife and I made many trips in our 4/4 through the continent and the UK, but it's evident that touring in the CX PlusFour is so much easier, effortless, with a smooth ride and very good Comfort Plus seats. The next trip to France, Switzerland and Germany with a group of Morganfriends is already planned. It just had its 3 years service with a software update I was told by my dealer. That's it. Last year I had a radiator replacement during service when a tiny leak was discovered. I had the Ninon upgrade done 1 year ago, which is a big improvement, and for me, my manual "Nitron" CX is the one to have!!! It still has the classic look!

I have and love the manual cx

I confess to being a slow learner. I have had my Roadster Sport for ten years now and changed the usuals in the suspension dept. Panhard Rod, brake reaction bars, etc but the other day remembered that the shocks were adjustable so stiffened them by two clicks all round and suddenly the car felt factory fresh . I don't know whether a change in the rear suspension would make it any better ( it has never bottomed out ) and I have no experience of the CX chassis but this was a terrific change for free.

If two clicks made that much difference it may be the ideal of zero pre-load static on rebound spring needs attending to as well. The extra damping would tend to mask excessive rebound travel as a result of sagging main springs on an older car. Easily solved if you have the SSL RS kit of course.

Thanks for that Richard > I can place two, nearly three fingers between rear tyres and their wheel arches and the springs are equal each side ( no droop as yet) : any other ideas welcome.

We may have misunderstood each other as I was referring to front suspension. On that you need to measure the gap between bottom of front stub axle casting and top of rebound spring underneath it and each side. Ideally they should be zero with no compression of rebound spring, i.e. one should be just touching the other. You may have to jack car up and down a few times to get a mean reading.

Okay, Thanks.

Being a New Boy to Morgans .....does the 2013 Roadster have adjustable suspension .....all completely std BTW.

The Brooklands model do. Not sure about the standard cars, I think it was an option

Thanks John,
I dont think it is.

As standard build no, it would have to have been spec'd with SSL front suspension upgrade - rear was not available as factory option back then

But over the years it could have been upgraded, if you post some photos on here we can confirm

The info I have indicated the Brooklands version of 3.7 Roadster had adjustable gas assisted dampers all round not the SSL RS kit (with spring adjustment) per se.

Here is the Brooklands spec

Roadster Std. Specification (from £40,000+VAT ex factory)
Jaguar ‘Brooklands’ green Body
Speed Silver Satin Bonnet and Cowl
Standard side screens A posts and cowl (silver)
Muirhead black leather (Matching stitch) with perforated centres
Brooklands steering wheel
Polished headlight surrounds
Black Alloy Wheels
Aero Racing Green front splitter
Enamelled Union Jack badge on bonnet
Black stoneguard with mesh grille
Louvred back panel (+8 style)
Black hood
Black Bonnet Strap
New Performance Sports seats
Body colour (green) dash board
Black Rubber floor matts
‘Brooklands racing circuit’ vinyl limited edition graphic on back
‘Brooklands racing circuit’ embroidered headrest detail
Limited edition numbered plaque on dashboard
NEW sculpted gearbox cover
NEW increased pedal space
NEW gear lever position
Twin anti tramp bars
Adjustable gas dampers all round
Round mirrors
Brooklands centenary Book
Annual membership to the Brooklands trust
Leather door pockets
Door check set and bonnet stays
Leather trim detailing
Optional Cost Extras (Prices not inclusive of VAT)
Polished aluminium bonnets and cowl £ 950.00
Gloss black door roundels £ 120.00
‘Black pack’ (A-posts, side screen trims and head light surrounds) £ 120.00
4x Black Alloys with silver accents £ 360.00
As above, including spare wheel £ 450.00
4x Stainless wires £ 1900.00
As above, including spare wheel £ 2475.00
4x black ‘Sport’ wires £ 1500.00
As above, including spare wheel £ 1975.00
Sports exhaust (Aftermarket) £ 1150.00
Heated seats £ 400.00
Sun Visors £ 125.00
Radio CD inc. speakers £ 300.00
Air conditioning £ 2000.00
Black PVC tonneau cover £245.00
Black mohair hood pack (hood, tonneau, sidescreen bag) £1370.00

No thats not mine for sure.....BTW just fitted LED Headlight bulbs today obtained from CLASSIC CAR LED's I think they were about £57 delivered which seemed like very good value. They certainly look better in the garage. Another little upgrade was the wipers from Pete Gilbert..Excellent job thanks Pete. Now whats next?

If the car is post 1986 the led headlights are illegal, should be an mot fail and could void your insurance. Sadly you need a full headlight bowl. If it is pre 1986 you can. Use the bulbs

I used the leds and agree they are night and day. Below is a picture of RichardV6 and my Brooklands with full led bowls plus Ted the dog

Yep, there was an article on the BBC webpages recently where the basic takeway was that many owners are simply switching from Halogen bulbs to LED bulbs, and that will be an MOT fail.

I didn't worry re the MOT it is the insurance issue that made me change. It is a total joke of course but in 1986 there was a major change in the rules.

Don’t know how to start a new thread but…….was £30,500 + commission (6 or 10%?) a good price for the pretty coloured and decent speck 2011.
18K mile Roadster, sold yesterday at SWVA . I was tempted but still unsure about prices etc.
MM

Mike, go into any section of the site and you'll see NEW THREAD in the top left of the screen - just below the main navigation bar - click on that to start a new thread.

Can't comment on the vehicle you mentioned but it would have been considered cheap awhile back IF it was in good, cared for, condition; now, I'm not so sure because the market seems quite strange and all over the place.

However, with Morgans, my view is condition is king. As I've said previously, I'd rather have a cherished car with miles on it than one that has sat in a garage and only come out of high days and holidays. Morgans do well with miles on them, if cared for; like most mechanical items, they don't like to sit and do nothing!

i have worked on garage queens and p&j that needed half what they were worth spending on them again by the new owner. seller drove them sparingly or didn’t understand what it took to maintain a moggie.

Chaps, I appreciate I am coming into this conversation late however, the awkward clutch on a 3.7, is it a simple matter to do away with the return spring, can it be done in situ, and removal have any down sides,, Thank you

I took that sdpring off & the car was transformed. Though my thighs were no longer like tug boats

Reg, yes easy to remove and does make a difference - actually MMC stopped fitting the pedal spring on the later 3.7's anyway

This pic shows the brake, just unhook the loop from the back of the clutch pedal with a pair of pliers, it can be left like that for testing & if you want it fully removed you'll need to unbolt the tube assembly from the floor and slide it off

Thank you cooper man, I will give it a go although I must admit that I'm a little concerned when you say that Morgan stopped fitting them on later models as mine is a 2019 and to my knowledge that didn't make many after that?

Reg, don't worry, mine (& I think V6 Richard's are 2018) and were not factory fitted

Having taken a clutch master cylinder apart there is quite a strong return spring within that, plus of course the massive diaphram spring in the clutch itself

Here's my chassis in build - no spring !

Thanks Jon, very helpful.