Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Maintenance & Servicing Splined shaft lubrication

On a trad, if you have the slightest of rear brake drag you can hear the spline clearance as the power comes on and off. Fix the drag and its fine.

Yes definitely the adaptors on early CXs and the wheel bearings on C 23 on. I always used copper slip. Also with painted wires the paint can make the hub tight but wear away to leave it loose. Ideally you retighten them after 50 miles or so

Hi all,

Many thanks for the replies.

To be clear, I was advised by customer services at MMC to only grease the splines of the hubs and NOT the splines of the drive shafts. The theory being that grease on the drive shaft splines is simply pushed up to the rear of the drive shaft mounting and consequently spun out. I have indeed experienced this.

John's experience is identical to mine albeit I suspect the paired matching of drive shafts and hubs on my car is particularly poor as I have had to repeat removal and re-greasing up to four times a year, most notably after very hot weather.

The grease I have been using is CASTROL GRAPHITED grease as recommended by MMC customer services: https://ebay.us/m/cLe3oR . I am unconvinced this is good enough, particularly where high temperatures are experienced.

As John Harris, I too have considered a conversion back to studded wheels and seeking a suitable set of alloy wheels. Not sure what this would cost but I am considering it. What I do know now (oh, how I love hindsight) is that I would never again specify spoked wheels. Look good they might but they are far too maintenance intensive for any car.

Agreed. Having had two cars with wire wheels, they never even made the “possibly” list when we specified our Plus Four.

Given the way in which wire wheels are fitted to a Plus Four, converting to alloy wheels may be straightforward. Two questions would need to be answered:
1) Are the wings exactly the same width for the 2 options (wire / alloy)?
2) If you remove the wire wheel adaptors, are you left with a hub to which an alloy wheel can just be bolted?

If both are yes, then a specialist alloy wheel firm will be able to advise re dimensions and help you choose some good looking alloys. Wheel Mania in Hinckley are one option (as per the Mat Armstrong videos).

As to cost - no idea!!

[/i]I have 450k on Morgan over-muscled Rover Plus 8. 375k of that on wire wheels, one with adapters (MWS) and another on MMC wire wheels and the last set (24 years) on a MMC test set of all-ss. [i]They seem virtually bullet proof. . Add to that my wife's e-type on a Dayton set set of wires (chrome with ss spokes). Never thought about grease much. I just keep a tub of generic wheel and bearing grease in my garage. But I imagine any grease that is unwise to use, will cause damage. Unless required for some reason, I now remove, clean, re-grease and re-torque all my wheels and wires once a year. They are tight enough before this process. No problem with this since lessons learned. Read on. BTW, I worry that if looseness is detected, even once a year, damage is already done.
There is only so much grease can do, even the right one.

In my sad beginning, I followed the advice of MWS to the letter. Consequently, my first set of Morgan wires and the Jag's were soon ruined, requiring new adapters and wheels. And bad spline disease transfers from wheels to adapters/hub and vice versa. https://www.mossmotoring.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/980-222-1.jpg

Then I received from advice from a Morgan owner (4) who also owns an old Ferrari. Ferrari, and other Italian performance car racers, popularized wire wheels, which British sports car made their icon. My wife adores them They are much lighter than steel wheels and this was the pre-alloy era. They can also be re-trued track side. He torqued his wires to 250-300 psi, not to MWS 75psi. They will tell you that the spinners self-tighten. That is true but not sufficiently. After I began torquing to a la Ferrari and that crowd, I haven't had needed much wire wheel maintenance since or a need to regularly buy a new set of adapters/hubs or wheels.

Lorne

P.S. BTW, one can buy bolt-on wire wheels. Very hard to tell the difference unless what looks closely. They are extremely practical and save the high weight of adapters. A little too practical for me. But we must ask ourselves a wire wheel question. Do we want them because of their sublime looks or because we like having the ability to tune them trackside like Ferrari did?

I love the traditional period look that wire wheels give, but they are becoming a little too maintence intensive, especially the extra cleaning with the it being my daily driver.

As I noted, filling the splines with grease is great, but will not in itself save your splines. I have found that spinner torque is far more pivotal, assuming your splines are not already shot. One bad side instantly ruins the other.

A preliminary codicil, I am not a fan of gurism. I deeply believe in debate, especially about mechanical things. It is more creative, safe and.more fun as everyone can join in. Knowing nothing is a creative advantage. though sadly a cause, in too many cases, of shyness. There is no such thing as a dumb question. Knowing only what you have been told or taught creates limits and rigidit . So I do not mean to suggest than anything I write is definitive or even my preferred path. We are best toI collect all options, examine them and choose according to YOUR nature, for example and YOUR tolerance for maintenance. These are merely my thoughts and my experience.

MAINTENANCE It is certainly true that most wire wheels choices need a lot of care. And most choices have a best-before date. I went through 3 sets of chrome wheels, 2 with ss wires, before having to toss them and before learning how to understand, deal and pick them. But my type of mileage doesn't tolerate component limitations long. But shiny wires ARE gorgeous. My wife adores them. We compromised, one car with wires and the other with trad Plus 8 alloys, which I like. They are not as period bu the suit the car. IMHO.

SPLINE DAMAGE If spline damage and how to avoid it is the hassle, bolt-ons wires are the answer while lowering unsprung weight.

TYPE Experience and observation has shown me to never again buy any wire wheel but all-stainless or painted wires, curiously the two very ends of the MWS cost spectrum. There are much more expensive wire wheels than MWS.

ALLOY CENTRE LOCKS The MMC tried alloy centre locks at one time.[/b] about 25 + years ago. A disaster that most, unfortunately, forget now. Those abandoned wheels have become inexplicably desirable. : . At the time, the MMC had to send out super long breaker torque bars to achieve sufficient wheel torque to prevent bad damage. Ideally, the hubs and wheels were replaced. .

WING WIDTH WHEN SWAPPING WHEEL TYPES Wing width can suit or more likely not in a rim swap. But this also depends on the wheel offset. After all, who wants to change wings? I had the MMC to recreate my car with wire wheel hubs in 2002 so I could forgo heavy MWS adapters. (Got to be the heaviest on the market and they only come in one size!) I wanted the car as slim and light as possible. We ended up saving 2.5 inches in width at the rear and 7(!) inches off standard in the front. (Charles illogically likes very wide cars which increases wind resistance and prejudices handling. BTW, there are better, much lighter adapter options than what the MWS ones and they can be order with different offsets. Just make sure the splines are steel. And yes. If you remove after-the-fact bolt-on adapters, you can switch back to bolt-on wheels in an hour, assuming the offset of the new wheels suits and/or you are relaxed about an imperfect fit.

COST Cost depends on what you choose. A set of 5 painted wires from MWS should about £1400 in the UK. Much more elsewhere. Their all-stainless runs £900+ each, or 1,070 to £1,244 each from Moss UK, 5000+ for a set of five. This does not include labor, adapters or new hubs if you currently have bolts-on.

ALL STAINLESS With all-stainless, you can clean them by water blasting them with a 1200psi + pressure washer, either at home or a car wash, just as we do for alloy wheels. Actually, you are less likely to damage all-stainless than alloys, coated wheels, chrome or painted wheels. A lot of information we assimilate is a mish-mash of correct information given for the wrong items. My all-stainless wires have lasted 23 years and look the same as they did the day they arrived. If that fact is considered, along with my mileage and hours of maintenance avoided, they are a bargain but so are painted wires.

BTW I have always been intrigued by Turino alloy wire wheels. Any here with experience of them?

Lorne

John spray with Dragons Breath cleaner leave for 5 mins and hose off, they will sparkle.

B'mog, Have to agree with you about Dragons Breath...... if you've never tried it you're in for a treat1

And gleaming.... wow!

Dragons Breath is excellent stuff, this is what my wheels look like after their annual deep-clean. Use as directed, and don't be tempted to leave it on too long before hozing-off.