Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Maintenance & Servicing Brake pads

Hi, I'm used to much sharper braking than my 2018 4/4 has. I've had new replacement OE discs, brake fluid flush and Mintex pads but my 1.6 Fiesta still has much sharper brakes. Any thoughts?

Master cylinder ?

Which mintex pads? also try a set of green stuff pads.

I don't know what your service/MOT history is but lots use a decelerometer to check breaking as the car is generally too light for a roller brake test. Your car will pass this even if your rear cylinders are seized. The hand brake still works fine and if the shoes are adjusted correctly that will pass as well.

I take it that you have recently acquired the car by your joining date. So, firstly rear cylinders are notorious for seizing, God only knows why but the Morgan has this quirk! New cylinders cost an incredible £86 for two at best and considering they are off of a Ford Transit van circa 1990 Dick terrapin clearly has the franchise for them! However if you are a hands on chap a cylinder repair kit both sides Is the way to go at £12 each.

If they are working correctly and by that I mean you can rock them carefully side to side with finger pressure then it's check the following:
Brake fluid level and condition, Should be changed every two years or at worst properly checked.
Pad wear on the front and disc state (especially grease from suspension contaminating from discs). It is imperative that this area is kept spotlessly clean and when greasing excess is immediately cleaned from the hub area. These do need correctly greasing however but that's another topic.
Rear brake shoe condition, one shoe has twice the thickness of friction material than the other from new!
Bleed brakes and replace fluid if in doubt. Dot 4 is the fluid unless marked differently at the reservoir.

NB≥
If no joy then check piston function in the front calibers.

Adjust rear brakes with the hand brake adjustment screw on the rear suspension hoop backed right off. check the function of the auto adjuster.
The hand brake is often adjusted to tightly say three clicks and this prevents the automatic rear shoe adjusters working fully. Modern cars want a short quadrant throw bet the Mog needs 5-6 clicks. The handbrake will almost use its full range of throw.

You will then have to inspect the function of the brake master cylinder and the vacuum unit. Check the vacuum hose connection first.

Had the car a year. The rear cylinders work well enough and going through its service history they were replaced recently, I had the corroded discs replaced a few thousand miles ago.. The car can come to a stop quite quickly but needs a firm foot and lacks the reassuring bite that modern hatch backs have. I'm afraid I don't know exactly which Mintex pads were used but i'm open to recomendations. I use EBC HH pads on my motorcycles for that improved initial bite. The master cylinder is the 8yr old low mileage original.

I don't think its a master cylinder issue as it behaves as expected.

Neville, So the brakes work and I guess it’s passed an MOT since you’ve owned it, it’s just that it’s not as effective feeling as in a Fiesta!
Before spending any more, why not try a ride or drive in a similar model. You may find “they’re all like that….”
A friendly dealer or a member of your local car club might oblige.

One other thing, have the new pads and discs been properly bedded-in since being fitted?
Find a quiet road, accelerate to about 35 mph and brake moderately down to about 5mph; do this 5 times in succession. Then speed up to about 50+ and brake hard, again repeating 5 times. Dont allow too long a gap between each test as you dont want to lose the heat. Stop, allow to cool a bit before going home.

I go with Sewin. Try Greenstuff pads. And don't expect a good initial bite. My Roadster was better with original discs and Greenstuff than it was with ventilated discs and fancy Mintex. I could not get enough heat into the front, and so it squirmed until it got hot, and showed on the brake tester. Greenstuff made a huge difference with my soft braking style.

I fitted Brembo pads to my Golf and they have astonishing initial bite, but were discontinued for the ventilated discs I have, otherwise I would have tried some on my Roadster.

Do you know the EBC Green Stuff part number number for a 2018 4/4? I think the calipers are 4 pot APs they have the Morgan wing badge on them.

Power assistance of brakes, deliberate or otherwise, is never too strong on a Morgan. I always remind myself when stepping from tin top to Mog of the extra force required. Obviously important they do retard car when used in anger though, to the point of locking up if no ABS.

Mixed views on the use of EBC green stuff pads although they work fine for me and show no great signs of wear after 37,000 miles.

I haven't tried that aggressively but will, but have found they work more effectively when hot. I have had to leave maintenance to dealers due to my having aggressive blood cancer and its been costing me too much for my humble wallet! Greasing the King pins every 1000 miles with moly is expensive as I did over 8000 miles in under 12 months.

Yes sailed through its MOT

Don't forget if you fit new pads they need careful bedding in and heat conditioning to get optimum long term performance

Also to note.... Ford Fiestas have VERY keen brakes! Every time I get in one I brake far too hard the first few times!

On the Mintex site (Google Mintex compounds) you will see various options. You can have High or Low initial bite. But for a light car with normal road driving, you'll be best with standard ROAD pads.... ADL, Apec and the like as the TRACK pads will need heat in them.

My personal opinion though is that you just need to adjust to the car. I love the fact that Morgans drive so differently from other cars!

Yep, I really don't understand why anyone would think that making a road car anything like a race car would be a good idea, and this especially applies to brakes.

On a race car if you aren't hard on the throttle you are hard on the brakes, and your brake discs are absolutely red hot nearly all the time. If they aren't, you aren't going fast enough. On a road car however your brakes are stone cold nearly all the time and are only occasionally used to steady the car entering a bend. You need an entirely different pad compound for the two scenarios.

Morgan Trad braking characteristics are anyway very different from 'normal' tin tops, not least because of the lower CofG and the almost total lack of nose dive due to the sliding pillar front end.

Just be wary if going for Greenstuff Pads. I fitted them to my MGB and on my spirited drive to work found I was getting brake fade on the last couple of roundabouts.I then went for Mintex 1144 and they were much better (no fade) but only lasted about 7000 miles. I'm now on standard Mintex and they seem to be doing OK.

As an alternative view, I have had a set of Greenstuff pads on my 4/4 for years and find them excellent.

DP2243 Neville available here

Don't overthink this folks...good 'owd FERODO FDB 832 is all you need

If they could stop a two ton Princess...

Exactly what I have and no complaints. Plus, they are much cheaper than ebc.

Great to find this post. I always wonder about the „brakepower“. But at the last journey I had the bad expierience that I must brake very hard at about 105mph at a german motorway. The „Sperrholzrenner“ (plywoodracer) wants to go massive to the right. The same for the next 50 to 70miles of the journey. Than it would turn a little better.

At home I realized that about 800miles after greasing the kingpins some grease was at the brakediscs. Now I want to change the brake pads. In Germany it‘s difficult to get them at my favorite dealer. After some ideas here I can get a paar of TWR pads next week.

But now the main question: I think I must use LOCTITE or something like that for the screws of the brake calipers? And: what is about the torque to fit them?

And the second question: there are special securing „pins“ for the brake pads. Do you reuse them or do fit the Single use Splints which come with new brakepads?

Thank you for your help and sorry about my bad english (I hope you enjoy it)

Greets René

You do not need to remove the calipers to replace the pads.Simply hold down the anti-rattle clips and push both of the dumbell pins out. The calliper pistons can usually be easily pushed back in with a suitable length of slender wood. Be careful to release the cap on the brake fluid master cylinder first and ensure the level isnt too high so it doesn’t overflow, or pack it around with some old rag.
Remove and replace one pad at a time, otherwise you may end up pushing a piston out on the other side…then you will most certainly need to remove calipers!

Hello Doug,

thank you for the fast answer. But too late. I thought it would be a good idea to undo the calipers for a better clean/ „degreasing“. And also: oh, such big calipers - there must be big pads in it for a massive brakepower. In Germany you sometimes say: „Überlasse das Denken den Kühen, die haben einen größeren Kopf“ (something like: let a cow do the thinking, they have bigger heads).

So now, the calipers are secured at the MOG and must be screwed on. But there is also the point: can I reuse the dumbell pins? Or can/must I fit the splines which comes with the pads?

As all the time: sorry about my bad english.

Greets René

New pads usually come with “split pins” (splines??) but for a Morgan, just use the original dumbell pins. If they did not come with new anti-rattle clips, inspect the old ones before re-using in case of rust or damage when they were removed.
As far as torque is concerned, I have no idea, and cannot find any Morgan specification. Do it up tight!
(Sorry about my German…non-ex istent! 😵‍💫)

Rene, It is a personal thing I didn't refit the original dumbell pins as I didn't like the arrangement at all.

I bought stainless bolts and lock nuts to fit - cut the bolts to match the length and that way I was happier and engineering wise it was a better solution for me. This also made it easier in the future for pad changes.

You can buy the dumbell pins and rattle plates separately if you want to restore the car as it was from Caparo.

Good luck with your decision, the split pins you have would be plenty good enough if they are a good fit and long enough.

From a South Devon Red cow



p.s. Cross posted with Doug

Rene, these photos may be helpful before you strip down

this shows the dumbell pins installed with the retaining spring steel retainers



Note, I have found that the spring steel retainers tend to loose their 'spring', you can see the difference here, this could lead to the pins wriggling free

Richard's comment about going back to normal split pins is valid and I may well do the same at the next brake check and clean day

Hello Jon,

Thank you for the informations and the pictures. So I think I reuse the original pins again.

But now I‘ve got the next problem. (The Germans…) The only Set of brake Pads I can get is a TWR kit. And after some days now I‘ve got it. But without the rattle clips, only the pads. When I undo the brake pads I was very lefthanded… and demaged all rattle clips.
Is there a part.-no. for only the clips for TWR or others? I think the original MORGAN number wouldn‘t help.

Greets René

any use
https://www.wolfperformance.co.uk/product/caparo-caliper-springs-pins/

I got mine from Rimmer Bros: “Brake pad clip” £1.46 ex vat each

Rimmer version here https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-QP2740

I always use a smear of Ceratec on pad backplate and pins. Using a flat blade screwdriver to push down on centre of each pad spring, to take pressure off pins, you should be able to push latter out by hand aided by a suitable size drift.

Yes, so do I but, beware of putting Ceretec on rubber brake components as it is mineral oil based and can degrade the rubber. Red rubber grease is best for that purpose.

Thank you for all your help!

In Germany it‘s a little bit different. After the expierience that my ECU was lost in the german DHL „Custom Service“ for some weeks, I‘m in generell „German Angst“ about shipping some things.

Also the German dealers are a little special. I had a call to the next official dealer and ask for a call about MBS1890 „Plate brake..“ clips. No call since wednesday.

But, with luck, today I get a set of FERODO brake pads.This kit comes with a Set of split pins (Part.no. BA 0030) and anti rattle clips (Part.No. BA0037). So now a look forward to next week, I think the plywoodracer will be back on road.


Greets from Germany (always with my bad bad english)

René

That's another reason why I recommend FERODO

Glad you're sorted Rene

In cause I couldn‘t edit this post, there is a new expierience. The Split Pins which come with the FERODOS doesn‘t work with the MORGAN calipers. They are about 3“, but you need about 3 1/2“ ones. So if you start with work have a look. So also the Part.no. For the split pins is more frustrating than helpful.

Greets René

I've seen split pins shown as being supplied with pads but not fit for purpose IMHO.

I notice that many Morgan compatible pads, including EBC ones, are now supplied fitted with triple spring clips on the backplate. Presumably they clip to the caliper piston as a means of reducing brake squeal, pad chatter or whatever

That‘s a thing I also noticed when I look for brake pads in Germany. And I wonder: how will it fit? With a look at the list which cars need this pads there is the Princess. And that‘s point. I think the Princess has two brakepistons. So the pads would fit. But the MOG has four pistons, so I‘m affraid it‘s impossible to install „the modern“ anti-rattle pads.

Greets René

Mintex pads work well

The Mintex code for our Caparo caliper pads is MLB52, I went with their 'Fast Road' MRM1802 compound paying £85.92 for a set of MLB52-MRM1802. I've been running these pads on Monty for over two years now with excellent results, having covered over 8,000 road miles I can confirm they work right from cold and do not squeal.

They've also performed brilliantly during numerous non-competitive hill climbs and tack days where despite the brutal punishment, they always completely refuse to overheat or fade. The Mintex MLB52-MRM1802 pads are also wearing well and seem kind on the discs, they do produce a bit more dust than a regular road compound but it's perfectly manageable.




For the spring clips and the correct Caparo caliper compatible pins I went to Brands Hatch Morgan, the spring clips look the same as Princess but the pin design is Caparo specific, so using a trusted Morgan parts specialist for the full fitting kit ensured I got the right parts first time



The Princess fitting kit is actually readily available for just £6.25, but be aware it comes with shorter pins that use split pins, not the dumbell type used in our Caparo calipers. As my original Caparo pins were well past their best I simply bought the correct full fitting kit off BH Morgan for £25.00.

To finish the job I completely purged the old fluid and replaced it with fresh Comma 100% synthetic DOT 5.1 fluid that has a dry boiling point of 275°C and a wet boiling point of 183°C; finally, changing the fluid every 24 months without the help of an assistant is now super easy using my inexpensive pressure bleeding kit.

https://www.talkmorgan.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/833215/1

The total cost for a set of top quality 'Fast Road' pads and the correct Caparo caliper compatible fitting kit was £110.92, that's twice the price of putting a set of pads on my wife's Mazda 2, but a fraction of the cost of putting pads in my old 4.7 litre V8 Vantage. A Morgan is a very light car so it's kind on it's brakes, l expect to get at least 40,000 miles out of my Mintex MLB52-MRM1802 pads which at my current rate of use (4,000 miles a year), equates to a pad life of 10 years, so just over £10.00 a year.

Just as I'd predicted, a Morgan Plus 4 is a very economical car to own and maintain

Just out of interest, the caveat written on the box "not on public roads". Is that now also on the actual pads ?

I spoke with a Mintex man a couple of years ago and he said that they have to put that on the box as they have not been tested to meet ECE R90. I believe a lot of brake manufacturers are having to do this, but personally I think it’s a load of twaddle.
Google it if you have time to waste.

The Austin Princess had 4 piston cast iron calipers René. The pads for this fit the Morgan's Caparo aluminium calipers but need their fitting kit. The pads alone are available from Demon Tweeks in Mintex MRM1802 fast road compound, working well from cold according to Dave/Montegue.

Good call Deejay, twaddle indeed

Agreed total twaddle. The reason I asked if the warning is now also on the brake pads themselves (which I have been told) I can just imagine some insurance assessor having a field day if he looked at the pads & saw the warning starring him in the face.

The Mintex MRM1802 pads when fitted to my callipers had no external markings on them.

Concurring with previous posts - these pads are very good performers.

That's odd Chris as the Mintex boxed MRM1802 pads received and fitted only today were marked as not suitable for road use. Not that this worries me.

Thank you Morganeer.

Green friction/fade refers to the early life action of new brake pads before they have been broken in apparently.