Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Dash Switches - PCB Protection 2003-2007 Morgans

I am now the proud owner of a 2007 Morgan +4 4 seater.. thankfully it has fully working dash switches.




However thinking ahead what can one do to protect the PCB?

What triggers the PCB Failure aside from water ingress?

Can you replace the Unit with traditional switches and relays like you can on the post 2007 cars?

Many thanks
Will

Somebody has already changed the 4 switches, I remember the dash from my previous Roadster, cream gauges and sensible layout with speedo and tacho ahead of the drivers view...lovely

ps, a set of 10 'Wolf' bezels for the warning lights just finishes it off (IMHO)

The switches are the same it just the covers, very quick to do

https://www.lemans62.org.uk/uploads/2/5/6/8/25680891/changing_switches_an_alternative_method.pdf

Yes, apologies I meant the lollypop inserts

If your 4 seater has the same modules as per my 2007 2 seater.

In addition to the PCB assembly behind the switches there are two modules

MEE 3360 Dash control module

MDE 4001 Dash switch module

Over the last few years I have had an issue where at times the fuel gauge and the temperature gauge don't work, the problem sometimes lasted for a day or two. initially it tended to occur when driving through very heavy rain, more recently it has occurred even when it is dry. Strangely the problem has always started when over the other side of the channel, although it has then continued back in the UK.

I did cover the modules with plastic sheets to make sure any rainwater was deflected away from the modules, and from the switch PCB, I also tried to stop water ingress, with some success, but not 100%

A few weeks ago, while over in Brittany, in very hot, dry, weather the gauges failed once more, I think that in the MEE 3360 there is a stabilised power supply for the fuel and temperature gauge, when ignition is turned on there is a delay and then the voltage ramps up to the working level. This supply doesn't get to the right level when the gauges don't work

I have looked at the MEE 3360 PCB under a microscope, I found some whiskers of solder floating around, but clearing those didn't improve the problem. I haven't tried any invasive diagnostic for fear of making the problem worse

I have just purchased a replacement module from MMC (via BHM), that was ( a few weeks ago) the last one in MMC stock. So far the gauges are back working

When time allows I will try to use the wire colours and a dvm/scope, to help work out the inputs and outputs to the MEE 3600 and try to make a bench test of the old module.

Regards

Mike

On mine I had the lights wired permanently on. I did this because I was told there are 2 micro power supplies one with lights one without.

It worked for me till a white van t boned the S1 Roadster

Double check the windscreen washer tubing behind the dash. If its the black rubber perishable type as fitted originally, replace it NOW with neoprene tubing (that is durable and long lasting).. To do this there are three screws to remove to lower the dash, but you will first have to lower the steering column to its lowest setting and of course the plastic moulding behind the steering wheel. Why MMC chose to use cheap rubber tubing in the first place heaven only knows !!! - It leaks sooner rather than later and can cost you an arm and a leg when water leaks down onto the circuit board.

Once I had the MMC licquorice tubing sorted out in 2009 with aquarium fittings and tubing I fitted a polytunnel grade cover over the whole of the critical area as they all leak in that area at some stage if you use the car year round, as I do. So I shall be fitting one to our Sons 4/4 Sport before the rainy season.

No such worries of course with the trusty Plus 8, she just carries on in her analogue way like a Shire Horse.

She shed her throttle cable Tuesday night on the way home but with so much torque available made it home having "jury rigged" the throttle at 900 rpm with a tywrap easily from Dartmouth to home - try that on the newer generation CXes..


Looking forward to getting my 48" chest and 17.75 Stones into the footwell to replace the cable on our return from our holiday in Eire

It's a good job my good lady is a yoga expert and could easily slip inside a Coke bottle at around 8.5 Stone wet and a 10/12 as it'll save me taking the seat out.



BHM had a couple in stock and it will probably arrive today, they are good Sarah and the team.

I forgot I also replaced the t piece of the tubing with a brass unit. My plastic one had split.

If it hasn't been done already, clean and flush all the windscreen washer system and plastic piping out,, as the washer water tends to sit and collect over time and coagulate in the washer container. As the washers are rarely used and the gloppy mess then gets pushed thru and puts the system under greater pressure when you come to use the washers and can force the plastic pipe and t piece apart behind the dashboard and all the deliicate wiring and PCB,

I know as it happened to me..Use some form of ties on the plastic and t piece ends.

Richard, Just a Minute ! Nicholas Parsons or Sue Perkins would have called you out for repetition AND deviation, so I shall too.
What on earth has your holiday in Ireland got to do with a leak behind the dashboard(s) of our beloved Morgan machinery. ?

Call me out Graham I don't give a monkeys chuff if it makes you happy so to do - now had the late Great Kenneth Williams done so I would have listened as he really was the master of that game.

Who or what is Sue Perkins anyway..deviation ?

Have another super carefree day in glorious Devon and chill dear boy chill we only travel this way but once.


p.s. You are throttling a good thread drift - get the link..

I was once a guest on a comedy chat show hosted by Sue. The other guest was Jim Bowen, of Bullseye fame. There may have been drugs involved.

It would be the only way...

I could not believe how easy it was to replace the coloured switch lenses for clear ones. What a difference, so thanks for the info!

My PCB went a few weeks ago...............😤😤
An indicator short circuit blew it.
Short circuit fixed a new pcb was ordered from the factory...... it blew as soon as it was plugged in....... £800 +.......!!!!

By this point my local auto electrician/genius decided that the only sensible approach was to completely re engineer the pcb.
He works on everything from pre war cars to the latest electric things......... he said he'd never come across anything as poorly done as my 07 4/4......🤷🏻‍♂️😆

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Julian, you have provided a prime example of that which seems to be the costs involved in maintenance and repair of modern vehicles in general.... Being of the baby boomer generation £800 to repair a fault in an indicator seems plain ridiculous, but I remember Peter`s (?) brake light fault that required at least two visits either to the MMC or one of their agents to have it resolved, which it seemed involved rather a lot of inconvenience in the process....

I suspect your autospark`s thinking on back-engineering the circuitry may be the simplest option, for as long as old components may still be available...?

You seem pretty clued up on motoring matters Jullian, I wonder if you might find something of interest in this 15 min vid, quite how much of it`s content may be A.I. generated I know not, but if even 10% of the facts presented are accurate... I do wonder where automotive "advance" might be heading...? )-:

Jullian, The Morgan having been made from bits of the shelf of who knows how many marks is bad enough especially as most manufacturers only tend to supply parts for 10 years post production. Morgan are already at that point or close to it when Morgan get their sticky fingers on them! However when they take a standardised part and modify it using a bloke in a shed you know you're in trouble and the pcb boards in 2004 to 2012 cars at least are such an example and to some extent the Gdi cars to end of production of the now known classic.
Some of us see a 10 year old Morgan as relatively new and many buy into the brand at this point. I'm hoping that as Morgan sold quite a few cars with this dodgy fitment that a small independent shop might take it on themselves to offer a repair/upgrade option or even a replacement PCB with the faults corrected pre production. To have an indicator short which can result in a blown board is just truly ridiculous and even when early on they knew of the problems they chose to do nothing about it. Let's hope their BMW drive train and electronics on the CX and beyond were totally designed by BMW and they didn't get to touch it or their days are truly numbered. You're paying Porsche money now for a new car and lets be honest unless you have a 10 car garage the Porsche doesn't break down!

I think the video and its message could be repeated across most of the big manufacturers now.
Only the Chinese seem to be impervious to it at the moment.... but who knows what their actual sales numbers are...🤷🏻‍♂️
The rush to electrify motoring seems to be faltering, as it seems is the rush to net zero in the UK.
Time will tell what happens, government intervention to influence a free market doesn't usually work, it will fail again with the eco revolution I suppose......🤷🏻‍♂️
What with AI, EV, IT and net zero we'll all be back to horses and carts living in a new dark age within 25 years......🤦🏻‍♂️

🇬🇧🇬🇧

I think that the BMW parts are pretty reliable....... the problems start at Pickersleigh Rd.......🤷🏻‍♂️😂
Those who pay £100k+ for a new Morgan have a right to expect a well sorted, tested and reliable sports car........😂😂😂😂😂

The PCB is the most hi tech part of my (any) trad............ I'm hoping that my sparky and his reverse engineering have taken the 'Malvern' out of the electrical system........🤷🏻‍♂️😂

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Hi Julian,

Can you share any more details on what the auto electrician did? Did they go back to basics I.e flasher units and replays. I have been told the 2003 35th Anaversairy +8 is setup like this, same pannel but no PCB behind it..

Was thinking given the indicators are likely cause of the issues, if you put an inline fuse on the indicators would that prevent the issue?

Many thanks
Will

Although fuses and relays have their place the seemingly knee jerk reaction by some of adding them creates another level of unreliability not to mention potential volt drop (see what I did there). Tracing one circuit on my car I found a total of four fuses, simply to ensure another circuit fed from samè battery source had one. KISS rules in electrics.

The 2006 to 2014 era of various PCB iterations all open to the elements was a bad one for Morgan. The advent of the sealed body control unit (BCU), already adopted by the rest of the car industry, was huge step forward in reliability taking over all the conditional tasks of the PCB plus a lot more whilst also communicating with ECU via CANBUS.

The extent of the work is waaaay above my pay grade.......!!
But as far as I know relays and wiring were involved.......🤷🏻‍♂️..... but, crucially, it now works.....😂
I was amazed that a fuse didn't blow before the pcb went.
The indicator fault was a wire that had rubbed through.
Part of our battle initially was the fact that no one, not even the factory, had an accurate wiring diagram. Several dealers and the factory sent me all they had but the lack of detail was incredible.

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Having changed my lollipop lenses for clear I discovered that the Fog light switch is not operating in that it will not click on. Is there a simple fix for that. It is quite likely it was rarely used. But it will be an MOT fail later this month.

Any ideas.

I'd first check the fog light itself for bulb, feed contact and earth which is generally at the lights mounting point. There was usually a rudimentary card showing what your car fuses were supplying, glove box service book etc are where you should find it as that is your next port of call. Then behind the dash for supply, pre and post switch and then feed live from the switch.

However I don't want to alarm you but fog light issues can indicate a PCB issue.

That’s is helpful. I feel the push switch is just not staying in position, but I will now check as suggested. Thanks.

Further investigation shows the fog light unit and bulb looks fine. When I remove the lense I can see the switch has a tell tale glow when the ignition is on like the others but when the switch is pushed in that glow goes out and the warning light does not function. Does that suggest a faulty switch or a fault with the PCB. I am no electrician, so any further knowledge will be most helpful.

Robin, the fog light switch isn’t a latching switch, it’s a momentary switch. The only one of four that isn’t latching. And don’t forget it will only latch/function when the main lights are on.

Regarding the fuses, the factory did notice that the PCB was functioning as a fuse when there was an indicator fault and started adding extra fuses on some later cars. They’re not that difficult to add. They are located behind the dash.

How amazing. I will go and have a look. Thanks. This is such a fantastic source of help and advice.

You were so right. What a chump I am. Many thanks. You made my day! All working as they should.

Rog, where would be the best place to wire the extra fuse, would it be for each indicator side before it enters the PCB?

Many thanks
Will

Fantastic

Some later cars had a little supplementary plug-in loom behind the dash with a couple of fuses incorporated. I have a dim recollection that the loom could be purchased from Morgan as an add on. I may be completely wrong but might be worth giving Mr Rutter a call?

Failing that it wouldn’t be that difficult to add a couple of 5A fuses on the N/S and O/S indicator supply wires exiting the PCB.

Wires GR90 and GW86 on pins 5 and 9 of the 12 way Dashboard PCB connector




And as always, the caveat.... Go careful modifying your car. Check everything for yourself. Don’t take my word for anything, I have no electrical credentials.


PS – there’s a nice little video by Dave showing the loom on this page

I can see why adding a fuse into the supply to the indicators would help protect the PCB in the event of indicator failure/short, but why stick them up behind the dash where you can't get to them is they blow? Surely they'd be better further down the loom in a more accessible location?

Probably it was the same person that decided to stick the relays behind the dash

You could always put a fuse on each corner...

The Plus8 I had was fun for a couple of electrical gremlins. Rear foglight was flashing in daylight with no lights selected. Got the wiring dagram out after checks on the bulb and unit showed all looked ok. Traced back to a module behind the dash that cancelled the light when dip front mains switched off. The reset required to comply with regs. Opened it up as it rattled. The pcb was loose so glued back. Problem resurfaced a few months later. PCB still glued ok. Phoned Melvyn for a replacement.Factory order, no news, none in factory for the later cars. Checked the pcb under magnification, spotted a couple of not perfect solder joints. Quick dab with a soldering iron and no further problems. My fall-back was to buy a unit from Carbuildersolutions as a replacement.
Bullet connectors for headlamp wiring...no protection under the wing so they corroded badly and gave problems. Solid.cut them out and remade connections with added protection for new non bullet connections.
Move to the current ( no pun intended) 2023 Plus Four.....gauges failed after a few months. Sorted at dealer with a new pcb under warranty. The cause was a badly fitting connector to the pcb resulting in a wire failure. An assembly fault so the connection was compromised. Dealer got the new pcb from MMC next day and fitted. I was dreading a delay but pleasantly surprised at the speed.
Looking at the age of so many Morgans I'm not surprised that electrics give issues. A combination of design/assembly/age deterioration catches up. How long before system checking and overhaul becomes prudent?

Brilliant Rog

Fortunately dropping the dash is a quick and easy job. When my main ECU relay failed out in Spa 3 years ago, I had the dash down, the relay changed, and the dash back up in 35 minutes flat.

Also, for what it's worth the late model PCB I harvested of a crashed 2016 4/4, remains reliable (so far), it came with the supplementary fly loom and fuses fitted so while these don't improve reliability as such, at least they offer a bit more protection for some of the delicate tracks on the board.

Mot failed due to one washer not working when tester tried it! Went home removed the bottle and was shocked to see the crud inside the bottle and tubing. Once that was done headed back for MOT pass, But soon realised there was water on top of gearbox tunnel and that suggest a leak on the tubing under the dash. So thanks to all of you I now know what to do!,,

Interesting revelation sospan that the CX Plus Four has a PCB involving the gauges. Would you happen to know if this is a MMC addition or an integral part of the instruments.

Dropped the dash following all the previous instructions and found there was a leak in the black tubing. I had nought a supply of neoprene but the diameter is wider, so need some mods. A previous owner had been in there and used string and superglue to attach the tubing to the t piece! That meant me damaging the plastic so off to buy a replacement. But here is an odd thing - behind the dash near the reostat for the instrument lighting I found a male and female spade connector, a bulb holder and attached to that a bulb! What would that have been for? I will use wire to attach the tubing to the t piece. And at same time work out a protector for the PCB using a plastic document wallet.

The dangly bulb is for the optional clock

Careful of using wire on the washer tubing as it may gradually cut through, I use narrow plastic cable ties about 1.5mm wide

S, the sort of stuff tents come in or waterproof jackets are made from make good dams to protect the PCB/instruments. Nice and flexible and easy to push into shape as you refit the dash. Use sticky backed velcro to attach at the top edge.

Does the odd bulb push int one of the instruments?

Best to replace all that tubing and connectors for the screen washer system. look at car builder solutions, All in there!

Jon, you are so wise. I am rethinking my solution! Many thanks for response.

Thanks once again. I have ordered tubing and connectors. The dangly bulb seems to be for the “ clock” option. This resource is worth a fortune! Thanks to all.

Definitely the clock option as I have made use of it.