Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms Conclusion to the Speed six Bentley case

Steve just shows who can you trust , but cars are bought for profit and the right cars can give you a large one . I remember +8s in the 80s bought for £17k and sold for £25k . A Bugatti Type57SC Atlantic was bought by a chap in the USA for £27m you can not expect him to drive it . If I was in the same league then I would do the same why not each to their own its a free world . quote=A11OGE]

Just having a similar conversation at work regarding buying cars for profit. Cars are built ot be driven, not for profit, not to sit in cottenwool etc etc So perhaps there was justice handed out here by 'The Car's God'. [/quote]

I am sorry but what a load of b/s.

1. You are not going to make a profit on a car bought from a dealer.... as if he is going to undervalue a car by 25%.... If the car is worth £550k a dealer is going totry and sell at £600k. I dont like lawyers but this one must be really off planet.

2. She spent hours polishing it... I bet...

3. She became interested in cars because of her ex-husband.. give me a laugh.

4. If you are buying a 2nd hand classic car for a lot of money, and that depends on how much you have in the first place you take along an expert to look at it, from the AA for a £1000 banger to bonhams for a £430000 bentley.

Overall oops I have dropped a clanger but because I am a lawyer and always right and blameless it cant be my fault so I will sue.

PS I dont like lawyers.

Really?

There are a few Morgan +4's from the sixties built by the factory with Super Sports specification but their chassis numbers were not listed accordingly. In a way they are therefore "non works approved SS". A lady in Switzerland was told this when she bought such a car. Afterwards she sued the dealer, claiming that he had told her it was a real SS only without the relevant papers. She lost.

Morgan dealers beware!

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the legal judgement in any particular case anyone spending that sort of money should have a certificate of originality in writing. At least then there is something to go by if it all goes wrong.

There have been many cases of forged classic cars and bikes. In our area an owner of a panel shop was recently arrested for forging classic cars.

In another instance, in which I was partially involved on behalf of a potential buyer, a racing Moto Guzzi was copied turning one original bike into several. The new frames and engines were given numbers never used by the factory and Moto Guzzi certificates of originality were forged using a scanner and Paint Shop. The potential buyer had already given a well known "reputable" British dealer a substantial deposit. He then started making enquiries when he smelt a rat. It all came unstuck when the person who had supposedly signed the certificate declared that she was not responsible for the certificates at that time and furthermore she was on maternity leave at the time the certificate was dated.

In my humble opinion a car or bike that only uses pert of the original frame or chassis and little else is not original but a replica and if sold as original is a forgery.

I don't know if he ever got his deposit back. Don't ask me the name of the dealer because I don't have it any more.

No names - no pack drill. Just my opinion for which I take no responsibility and has nothing to do with any particular case.

I wonder how much of an old car has to be unmolested original components for the law to see it as genuine. I cant imagine that there are many period racing machines that havent had replacement body parts / bodies or chassis or engines during their life.

Like grandfather's axe: 20 new handles and 2 new heads.

Wikipedia has an entry that makes interesting reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

BL competition cars are riddled with such anomolies. Apparently number plates would be re-used (switched) between cars. When you factor in reshells and replacement engines, I doubt that many ex-works Mini's, Healey's or MGB's have much original stuff left on them. Many years ago the MGCC received a letter from a treasure hunter who had "found" the remains of the one missing lightweight Sebring MGCGT in a scrapyard in the USA. Much was made of the fact that only one front chassis leg remained, but the car would be rebuilt. This story ran for a couple of years until the real thing turned up in a barn intact........
The treasure hunter suddenly went silent.

I just don't get why buyers will pay well over the odds for a competition history.

the appeal court ruling against the judge of this case makes good reading.

DaveW's original post last year is at Bentley Speed Six - High Court Ruling.........

I downloaded the full adjudication at the time and found the whole case fascinating. This is a really interesting and unexpected twist to the story!

Thanks for posting.

~iw