Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Morgan Three Wheeler & Super 3 Timing belt replacement

Took a look at my engine timing belt the other day to track down a burning smell and saw numerous cracks on the outer rubber skin. This is a 2017 model with only about 1100 miles! S&S provided a replacement and I'm doing it myself since the nearest Morgan dealer is now hundreds of miles away. The S&S Dealer directory is coming up with only local shops that don't work on the x-wedge.

The old belt came off with no problem after I removed the two idler wheels and released the tensioner. However, putting the new one on is a challenge. To me it looks like the piñon shaft bolt and washer need to first be removed but S&S tech support says that this isn't necessary. I don't want to remove these if I don't have to. Any advice on fitting one of these would be greatly appreciated!

I replaced mine without any issues.

I only removed one idler puller, the one with the with the flange towards the front of the engine. Putting the belt back on is a bit tight just make sure the tensioner is fully released, a third hand helps I used a spanner and tied it off to a convenient point on the car.

You don't want to be undoing the pinion shaft bolt this is Locitited on as there have been a number of failures of these working loose.

This link has instructions for replacing camshafts and includes instructions for cam belt replacement.
https://assetcloud02.roccommerce.net/files/_sscycle/8/9/4/106-3982_easystartxwedge_20081202.pdf

Thanks Rog. Did you put some loctite blue on the idler bolt when you replaced it?

No I didn't use Loctite on the idler bolt.
I changed my cam belt 5,000 miles ago at 10,000 miles when I did the crank sprocket update.

A couple of months ago I had my belt changed at the car's 3k service. It had lots of cracks on the outside skin as JP describes above. It was sent back to Morgan at their request, presumably for further investigation or claim against S&S. Best get these belts checked regularly......
My M3W is a late 2016

Agree only removed the one idler pulley with the rib on the outside edge. Used my son to hold the tensioner and then refitted the pully.
Used loctite as per the S&S technical update.

Last year i had my 2015 3000 miles in at Beamish Morgan for a service and oil leak from front cover, they found my belt had cracks in it and said i was lucky it had'nt broken, it's odd that they are cracking at low mileage.

Sounds like heat maybe? Install spacers between cover and engine to lower belt temp.

my car already had the improved cover for air circulation.

After my timing belt blew up I replaced it as well as adding the spacers to the cover. Have been checking every 5,000 miles and still looks good. Its only four bolts and ten minutes to do so...

Mine also had the improved cover for air circulation.

Still can't get the belt back on! i assume that it goes over the left and center cam gears, under the left side idler, first. Then does it go over the right side cam gear or does it go over the tensioner and piñon pulley? when does the right side idler get installed?

I've been practicing with the old one as I don't want to mess up the replacement. Is any "persuasion" required with levers? The tensioner is fully released and I can barely get the belt to clear the 2" pin holding the right side cam gear in place.

Thanks!

On my car (2012) the belt track is shown on the reverse side of the timimg cover ?

It's on mine too. The issue isn't the belt track, it's trying to get the belt over the pulleys when the tensioner is fully retracted. Almost like the belt is too small.

Got it in. Needed that 3rd hand. Thanks everyone!

My timing belt has 24k plus miles on it. I have carried a spare belt and the tools to change it for 3 years now. I have a Confederate motorcycles clear cover and the belt still looks good. I have to wonder about the wide differences in longevity. S&S recommends a change at 30k.

I believe the differences come down to heat. When my first died, without benefit of the cooling gap in the cover, it showed definite symptoms of blistering on the back of the belt where it would stop on the main crank shaft when the engine stopped. They always stop in the same place just like any 4, 6, or 8 cylinder block. That place was were my belt parted. Ever since I've had the gapped cover there has been no sign of blistering and this belt has outlasted the first by a significant margin.

My car is a 2017 with the vented cover. The belt has less than 1100 miles on it. I've spent only about 5 minutes total in stop and go traffic and never driven when the air temp was over 80 degrees F. I suspect that it's a quality control issue with the belt.

I am finishing up my cam upgrade and struggling a bit with getting the belt back on. Do you put both idler pullies back on before you route the belt around? I have the belt on but left off the one idler pulley with the lip to the front but having a very hard time to get the idler pulley back on with the belt on.

Good advice Ricardo...

Have A look on this belt very often
And after No problem

I have changed my belt and you put the belt on with the idler pulley with the lip removed and then put that on afterwards. Make sure the belt tensioner is held off with a spanner to release any tension on the belt.

I did this for the first time yesterday! Like you I had removed the right hand idler. Do you have the tensioner held in the non-tensioned position? I did this by holding the 11/16" spanner with my trolley jack.

Assuming that you have the allignment pins in the three cam pulleys and that the pinion pulley is alligned to FTDC, with a little huffing & puffing you should then be able to slip the belt into position. Then just hold the idler tight against the belt and you should be able to wangle the fixing bolt into position. If not, then the belt is probably a notch out somewhere. Good luck!

yes, both idler pulleys should be installed before the belt is put back on. I had an assistant hold the tensioner wrench, so I had two free hands to work the belt. It does eventually go back on even though it seems to be too small. Good luck!!

I've just looked at the S&S service manual (page 3-41) and it advises that BOTH idlers should be removed when fitting a new belt! This will make the job much easier in the future now that I've read that!

Good to know for next time. Thanks!

Thanks guys. Tried it multiple ways. The only way I got it to work is to leave off the front/top right idler pulley until the belt was on. What I figured out in all of this is one tooth off on the belt and the idler pulley is not going back on as the slack has to be up there. Easy job to do but you need to be patient. Fyi my belt had 1k miles on it and a few cracks and sent some pictures to S&S and they took care of me.

Just replaced my 2013 M3W a second time. First one broke resulting in an $800 midnight flat bed tow to a S&S dealer certified to work on the X-Wedge engine (surprisingly not many are!). After about 2,000 miles I noticed cracks on the new belt. So I bought another belt and the vented cover and this is what I did (obligatory: do this at your own risk warning):


Morgan Three Wheeler Cam Belt Replacement Instructions

Tools needed:

• Torx T-45 bit (preferably one that connects to your socket ratchet)
• allen wrenches
• regular open ended wrench set
• paint can or similar height stand
• THREE (3) STEEL 3/16” PINS. About 2 inches long. NO WOOD DOWELS! Machine shop
supply houses sell them, or your local hardware store may sell a long rod you can cut down

1. Work on a level surface, and set the hand brake, DO NOT put it in gear, (keep in neutral)

2. Remove license plate (two Allen bolts)

3. Remove front cam belt cover (4 Allen bolts) and you will see:
a) 2 Idler pulleys on top
b) 3 large cam sprockets (near top and middle)
c) 1 cam belt tensioner (lower middle)
d) 1 crank pinion sprocket (lowest)

4. Using your phone, take a few photos of what you see, to reference later

5. Use a Torx 45 (“T-45”) bit to rotate crank pinion sprocket until the little notch on that sprocket’s edge is pointing exactly at the “FTDC” marking on the surface next to it

6. Each of the 3 large cam sprockets have one 3/16 inch “cam sprocket timing hole” inside them, smaller than all the other holes. Those 3/16 inch holes should be aligned with (somewhat hard to see) drilled out holes in the plate behind them

a) Insert STEEL (DO NOT USE WOOD!) 3/16 inch dowels into each of those 3/16 inch holes – one per cam sprocket. This will lock the sprockets into place to preserve the cam timing.

b) If the pins do not go in, don’t worry, you can adjust the cams a bit after the belt is off and install them then.

7. Use a 17mm or 11/16” open end wrench to turn the bolt (behind a small washer) on the Cam Belt Tensioner clock wise until it comes to its stop (the “stop” is a small aluminum tab just to the left of the pulley). You are UN-tensioning the belt tensioner. Hold the wrench in place with a paint can or strap or what every you have.

8. Use an Allen wrench to remove the two Idler pulleys. Note: each pulley has a higher flange (edge) on one end to guide the belt. The left pulley has the flange on the back, away from you, the right side is reversed with the flange towards you. Each Idler pulley has a bolt and two special washers (each with a raised edge, more on that later). There may be a small rubber ring holding them all as one piece, or not (in which case the bolt & washers may slide apart).

9. Remove the belt. If possible, leave the wrench holding the Cam Belt Tensioner as is.

10. At this point, if you were not able to install the steel 3/16” pins into their respective holes in the cam sprockets, do that now. A little bit of rotating should be all that is needed. The pins should fit a bit snug and should not wiggle much. NOTE: if you use wood dowels, they may crush or wiggle, messing up cam timing and not allowing the engine to start. Don’t ask me how I know this…

11. With pins holding the cam sprockets, and the Crank Pinion Sprocket’s notch exactly at FTDC, go ahead and begin to install the new belt (with printed wording on it facing you). Use the photos you took as a reference or the back side of the exterior cam cover has a diagram on it as well. I started from the bottom up, but you can try any method that works for you.

a) Wind the belt around such that there is a minimum of looseness, make it snug, use a clothes pin where needed.

b) Getting the belt around the finally pulley or sprocket will require some but not severe effort. If it does not go, remove the wrench from the Cam Belt Tensioner and rotate the tensioner a bit, then reapply the wrench to UN-tension the tensioner and try again.

12. With the belt finally on, and keeping the wrench on the Cam Belt Tensioner (Tensioner is un-tensioned) you should have enough slack to relatively easily bolt on the two upper Idler pulley, bolt & washers. Apply 20 ft lbs of torque.

a) Note, if the Idler pulley, bolt and washers came apart during removal (ie the tiny rubber ring holding them together is missing) the washers have an indented edge that allow them to partially fit into the Idler pulley’s bearings and help keep the Idler Pulley centered around the bolt. If you bolt the Idler pulley on properly, you should see its Allen head is centered inside the pulley and NOT off center. If they are off center, the washers are not properly seated on the bearing, do it again. As you assemble the Idler, washers and bolt (if they came apart upon removal) you will see the logic.

b) Remember the left Idler pulley has it’s pronounced flange towards the engine, the right side Idler pulley’s pronounced flange is towards you.

c) The second Idler will require more pushing down against the belt to make sure the Allen bolt goes in straight.

13. Release the wrench from the Cam Belt Tensioner, and you will see the belt tighten up a bit.

14. Before attaching your cam cover (you bought the new VENTED version from S&S, right?) start up the M3W and see how everything is spinning around. If ok, turn off the engine and re-install the cam cover and license plate. Note, the new vented covers do not require the gasket.

15. Relax and have a Bourbon, Scotch, glass of milk, whatever you use to relax. You earned it. Use your old cam cover to serve pretzles, because no on on ebay will buy it.


and let me know if I missed anything here.

Well done replacing the cam belt Ferrisl. If you still have a crankshaft bolt with a T45 head I suggest you have a look at doing the upgrade to the camshaft drive that includes replacing the crankshaft bolt with a 12 point head type, or you may be needing the pretzel bowl again. The old style bolt tends to come loose and exit through the cam cover in a destructive way. With the loads involved it is better to use a Torx Plus 45 bit. The cam drive upgrade is well worth doing for reliability. The info is here:

https://www.mtwc.co.uk/wp-content/u...-Pulley-Replacement-Ver-1.compressed.pdf

Planenut,

Yes, I bought the replacement pinion and bolt but, after 8,500 miles of use, found the existing T45 bolt still very tight, so I did not replace it at this time. I will be monitoring the belt every 500 to 1000 miles and that pinion bolt as well. Thank you for the link, that is an excellent document!

Mine has the newer 3/8" 12pt and it is really stuck on there! I need to pull the pinion gear to get at the crank seal and I have had a devil of a time getting it to budge. It does turn left to loosen doesn't it?

The newer style is held on with Loctite so takes a bit of releasing...I used an impact wrench with a decent socket on it.

Thanks Calum. It is LEFT TO LOOSEN isn't it? Nothing in the manuals says which direct to turn, only remove or replace.

DECENT SOCKET must be the trick. I tried an old Snap-On 3/8 drive and broke it across the drive square! I just ordered a 1/2" drive impact socket and we will see how that goes. I suspect some heat to the bolt first could not hurt since I am replacing the seal anyway.

Yes, left to loosen it. It's not a left hand thread.
A bit of heat applied a few times so that the Loctite gets a bit of time to degrade may well help.
My impact wrench is 1/2" drive and I would say it only just managed to undo the bolt.

Thanks Calum.

That did it, thanks.

Now to try and get the pinion gear off. Any ideas other than make a puller?

I was able to prise mine off with 2 claw hammers.

Got it off, and MMC was liberal with whatever cement they used. Note it is mostly on the shaft and not the threads.



They also applied it to the crank pinion as well.




I used multiple tools to wedge it off and it only moved after applying heat to the crank gear,

Now to figure out the thing that was left on the pinion. Some sort of washer, which I just removed. Now to get the seal out!

When I replaced my pinion the instructions said apply Loctite to both the bolt and the pinion. I suspect in your case it was S&S and not MMC.

Yes.

To be fair, the instructions do not mention loctiting the bolt shank although I guess that it would be difficult not to spread some here when inserting the loctited thread.

Good idea...

I have four cam sprocket lock pins for giveaway if anyone wants them, just private message me.

These are the pins you use to lock the cam belt sprockets in place while you change the belt. I have four to give away but you only need three.

The pins have been given away.

Yesterday I replaced my early idler pulleys with the later snap-ring type. I must admit that I found fitting them a bit of a pig, even though I've replaced the timing belt in the past without too much of a struggle. The lightbulb moment came when I realised that if you work the small o-ring along the thread of the bolt, the pulley bearing will slip between the stepped washers, thus allowing much more wriggle room.



Then both bolts can be done up finger tight before you push the pulleys against the belt and correctly locate the bearings between the stepped washers.



For reference:
S&S 106-0696, 'Front' Idler Pulley (RHS on M3W)
S&S 106-0697, 'Rear' Idler Pulley (LHS on M3W)
Idler bolts torque:
15-18ft-lb (20-24Nm)