Talk Morgan Forums Community The Malvern Arms Alternative to Plus Four?

Thanks for posting the second pic Richard, I get the feeling you are drip feeding us...(-:

I guess the 968 derivative in the pics looks a tad like that which Singer has done in backdating 964`s to look like 911`s on steroids, with all componentry finished like jewellery, and as expensive as such.

While I am in awe of the engineering employed in the Singer, despite the amount of care in development and attention to every possible detail, a Singer is not a Porsche, just as a RUF is not a Porsche, thus this variation on the 968 extremely attractive as it is, is also a not a Porsche.

Having typed the above I suspect I am on really thin ice...(-: As I have typed more than once..I bought into Morgan in the hope of enjoying a large engined pseudo Vintage driving experience that did not cost as much as a real Vintage machine capable of topping the ton...Topping the ton being a cultural hangover from my misspent yoof as a m/cyclist...though in truth I may if ever have seen the speedo passing those numerals only once if ever..(-: However I have spent many an hour at circa 70mph and approx 2.5k RPM while heading South in "comfort" as it might seem reasonable to expect in a quality Vintage machine..?

Vintage..? I well knew that Morgan was a bit of a bitsa, using relatively modern engines and drive trains from other manufacturers, however it was the degree of history and heritage associated with Morgans preservation and use of handmade coach-building skills in the production of that which appeared to me to be Vintage inspired recreation of automotive artwork. Whereas the Vintage machines that impressed me so much tended to operate the reverse of that process, in that they engineered the engines etc and then farmed out the coachwork. Thus all in all Morgan`s way of doing things fitted well enough relative to my hopes and desires. That there was no fibreglass involved underlined Morgans Vintage credentials..and that my Mog was alloy bodied again added a degree of appeal.

The 968 using a black backed registration plate in that which I assume is an attempt to make the machine appear older than it is to the casual observer, may be regarded as a bit of a mind trick, given such would be illegal for use out on the road.

Not a Porsche... I doubt that 356`s were crash tested but I am pretty sure that 968 were, that being the case perhaps expectations of Porsche design crash performance if the worst came to the worst, might be misplaced..? But then the average old 968 could well be past it`s best in that department due to the effect of corrosion..? I suspect a machine of the imagined quality of that in the pic will have been based upon a solid shell...?

I do like the flying buttresses they add a great deal to the styling though I am left to wonder at their practicality/storage options when it may be time to raise the hood, however as a mid 80`s Morgan owner, I imagine whatever is involved might take less time/effort than raising my hood.. (-:

I anxiously await a pic incorporating the rear of the machine in order to view styling changes there, if any..

Ultimately it looks to be a really impressive bit of design.

Peter, I think I understand that some manufacturers like Ferrari are touchy about there product I.D. I typed of that recently re Morgan and Harley, though it seems Porsche may be less so in terms of Singer and RUF, however I guess there is no doubting the quality of their products, thus that may account for Porsches seemingly relaxed attitude..to date...?

The first pic I posted is an image link to the sales details George where you will find many more pictures.

Many thanks for that Richard.

I hope a little criticism is also allowed. Forgive me, but I can't get used to the design of the Boxter/356. To my eyes, it's too obviously retro, but the proportions are somehow not right, especially that very long rear end. The doors, the roof line and the bonnet are also standard Boxter and it „bites optically“ as we say in German. At least Singer didn't change the proportions of the 911. I don't want to go so far as to call this Boxter/356 a bastard but it's not really my taste. TM is a nice forum and we usually respect different views, thankfully.

Why would that concern me?If I were into brand names ( I am not) then Singer is a better one than Porsche surely.




Having been in continuous manufacture, Morgans are a bit like the old farmers axe which after 5 new blades and 10 new shafts is still the same old axe. You cant say that about a Boxter butchered to look vaguelly like a 356. The question has to be "why" given how good the basic Boxter design is.




That wasnt Ferrari - it was the Italian police. Ferrari is a national icon in Italy, one of which they are immensely proud so a bit of police nationalism isnt a surprise. Incidentally JLR have shown sensitivity about their back catalogue closing down some replica businesses ( was it Suffolk cars??) But that was so that JLR could make their own overpriced replicas of their back catalogue.

Howard, when I suggested that a Singer, RUF or the modified Boxter were not Porsches and you asked as to why that might concern you...when you typed.

"Why would that concern me?If I were into brand names ( I am not) then Singer is a better one than Porsche surely".

I agree that the Singer has a higher market value and would seem to be a higher quality product ,as it seems RUF may be also, though the modified Boxter... Hmm..?

I guess my logic, mistaken or otherwise, dictates that we humans seem likely to be influenced by "brand names" whether we like the idea or not, and were that not the case it seems that all that is spent on adversing and downright blatant promotion of brand names to the effect that not only do folk buy clothing with brand names of this that and the other displayed discreetly but visible enough for a discerning few to not their presence, or on the other hand emblazoned across one`s chest... Yeah it seems advertising can greatly affect modern society in terms of the choices they make. All of which might be thought as some form of ..err.. marketing..? That perhaps being the case, either directly or indirectly affecting the market value of anything and everything..?

I guess I like to imagine I am a reasonably logical sort of chap of slightly independent nature, thus keeping up with the Joneses or being part of the faithful has not ever been high on my agenda. I also suspect and hope that the majority of marketing might be wasted on me, however it seems perhaps I would be tad unwise not to acknowledge it`s effect on shaping the power of the markets..?

For sure when it comes to finding a vehicle to fill basic needs for transport, a Porsche was never that at any time for me, a one ton pickup truck has far better filled that need for me over numerous decades. Over the same period in time, whatever m/cycle or sports car I had in bits filled a whole different set of needs and desires... and as ever the market would determine that which I might stretch to afford and that which was beyond my means... Shrug..!

My automotive interests initially somewhat rather restricted by my financial situation fortunately improved over time, and buying motorcycling/motoring magazines every week/month, I ever enjoyed reading of all sorts of machinery types and their performance in many areas...

PORSCHE...! As I may have typed here before, the upturned jelly mould appearance of the 356 compared to the then new Jaguar E Type, or even the Lotus Elan, caused me to totally disregard the 356, dismissing it as no more than a tuned up Beetle....Even the 911 looked to my eyes as not that much better... It was not Porsche advertising, as there seemed not to be a lot of that in the seventies, either that or I just ignored it, but the more I read of the engineering quality and the success in sport that began to pique my interest in Porsche. One article more than any other that did it for me was that in Motor Sport Jan 1970 titled 50,000 miles with a Porsche 911. It was not until some years later that the opportunity to own a rusted out old 60`s 912 arrived and I jumped at it.

Howard, if you read my last response to your reply on the use of SS fixings, some of that is applicable to that which greatly impressed me relative to my badly corroded Porsche acquisition, in that it seemed every nut or bolt I put a spanner to came loose, which surprised me greatly having spent years on my old cars learning all sorts of ways to resolve issues related to sheared off fixings of all types in all sorts of locations. Further to that you may also have read of my frustrations relative to the poor quality of fixings employed on water cooled Porsches which indeed are very different vehicles from their air cooled predecessors in terms of the quality of fixings. In my air cooled days I could buy each and every nut bolt and screw from my local Porsche agent, and dependant on it`s designed end usage it could be chromed, gloss or matt black, or plated in a variety of different grades of finish and come in a Porsche branded packet with the appropriate part number.... No wonder Porsche profits were not what they should have been, it seems the engineers were in charge and quality was all..... Of course that had to change, it did and strange as it seems during the time I owned my last 911... Nuts bolts and screws seem`d to come in bulk stored in bins at the parts department, worse yet to come with foibles in the quality of engineering that seem`d to persist even over model changes.. but then Mr Porsche and family had been bought out by then and olde worlde ideals were binned it seemed cutting costs was the new way of working

There is no denying the market valuation of the "brand name" PORSCHE given it`s success in motorsports of all genres.

For me it was a bit of a disappointment when the "city" types seem`d to adopt the 911 as a status symbol, which no doubt caused an increase in their attraction to many for the same purpose, a purpose which it seems has maintained momentum over many a year... I gave up on Porsche for a few decades as the whole status thing eventually got to me and in a Morgan I was thought to be ideal not envied, and perhaps more looked upon as a daft old geezer in a daft old car by the Neanderthals whose will to engage was obvious when driving a bright red 911. For sure 911 envy does still exist in some but far less so over the easy money years when almost anyone could/still can buy a Porsche given the number of them out on the road for a few decades now, compared to fifty years ago when I bought my first Porsche, they were a rarity in my part of the world.

TODAY I am back in a Porsche.. and still own my Morgan... Both of which in their own way are perhaps more examples of hard won achievement and not to impress anyone other than MYSELF, and provide a feel good factor every time I walk into my garage and see them both, even better to fire one or other up and head out looking for a bit of traffic free Tarmac. Both vehicles might be judged at being the opposite end of the spectrum in terms of engineering advance and qualities, but both to my eyes are equal when observed as automotive art forms. It seems my appreciation of Porsche engineering spilled over to the extent that the Porsche outline became an acquired taste, more so when it acquired a more bulbous appearance..(-:

On a more practical basis, in terms of transport, compared to my +8 the 991 wins hands down, all be it with a fair degree of emotional involvement relative to all that Porsche has been to me in terms of memories created and friends made. Though in terms of emotion my Morgan comes out on top, as it was ownership of a series of air cooled Porsches that provided so many Porsche related memories, but I have only ever owned this one Morgan and it has been that old +8 that carried my good lady and I to what felt like real adventures when we first motored to France, Spain, Portugal and Italy, creating memories never to be forgotten, and these days unlikely to be repeated... Sigh.

The "butchered" Boxter Howard...? Perhaps a bit like my thinking many years back on the tuned up Beetle, the backdated Boxter may be a high quality build using high quality engineering practices and materials even to exceed those of Singer.... Or not.. I have no idea, or in truth no more than a passing interest. The modified Boxter`s market value over time may well be more important to one type of buyer than another, just as seems to be the case with many a motorised vehicle. My Morgans market value really mattered at the time of purchase, as it equated to five years savings, once it was purchased it`s market value would only ever be important to me if and when I might want, or more importantly need, to sell it to fund some other of life`s priorities that might have cropped up at any time.... Fortunately to date that situation has not arisen, but it could do yet...!

991 purchase in my 70`s... Hard to justify to MYSELF, but I got there, that my good lady can drive it and enjoys doing so is a BIG plus, she has never driven the Morgan, and for quite a few years now has preferred to drive automatics. Perhaps a tad like deciding to sell my sail boat, there may come a time when it seems more sensible for this old geezer to give up driving a Porsche and retreat to something more..err..fitting, much as it seems my Morgan driving enjoyment has continued to reduce over the years... Sigh..!

My good lady`s diesel strange Rover (-: seems to fit our combined transport requirements rather well given we live quite high up on the side of a rather steep hill and along a single track private road serving a small community, a combination of routes that can be a bit of a challenge in Winter in our part of the world, and these days with pot holes becoming an ever growing menace to ever larger diameter alloy wheels and tyres with the profile of an elastic band, the old Evoque`s high profile rubber seems to work out well enough, though I guess the eco warriors would not approve of our choices... Each to their own..?

Ferrari...? Yeah well I did hope to get there..(-: So it was overly officious Italian police who determined that this imitation should not be allowed to be seen on the road, and not the company... Sorry, I had no intention of spreading fake news..

Apologies for such a long winded response Howard, it would seem to be a habit...(-: A one time legally trained friend once told me the more one says/types the easier it is to undermine whatever point was hoped to be made.... I am pretty sure he was correct...(-:

Jim McNeal, a retired professor of marketing at Texas A&M University who heads a youth marketing consultancy called McNeal & Kids, says American children become “brand- conscious” at about 24 months, and by 36-42 months they make the connection that a brand can say something about their personalities—they are strong or cool or smart.

Seems luxury goods are experiencing growth funded by the young adults still living at home..£2k for a handbag, perhaps a coat or a pair of shoes or a bit more for a watch..? Yup it seems many of us at all stages of life might be more influenced by branding than we might like to admit.

Seems the power of advertising might be considered less than wise..?

Returning to the title of the original post - I'm test driving a Lotus Emira on Saturday. Seriously considering it after 43 years of Morgan ownership.

Enjoy the test drive