Talk Morgan Forums Morgan Sports Cars Classic Morgans (pre-CX) Roadster 3.7 ECU Upgrade IMPORTANT Info.

I apologise for the length of this post but I wanted it to be as clear and concise as possible for all interested. I undertook what is detailed below in good faith to help me, MMC and other Roadster owners. I should point out that I take no responsibility for any issues which may become evident for an ECU fitted to a Morgan Roadster by MMC in the future.

I purchased my 3.7 Roadster last summer, it is the Roadster built early 2013 for the Marfan Charity run to Nordkapp. From early on I have had various discussions with Willams Automobiles, Steve Morris and Mark Evans on the rev hang issue with this model. MMC has now given me permission to let others know what I have been up to, we all agreed to confidentiality as no one wanted to get others hopes up and possible disappointment. For those who do not know me I have owned many powerful cars over 35 years, I have done track days, sprinted and I race in hill climbs, so am a reasonably experienced driver.

Issues as evident on my car with my style of driving was as below:-

1. When accelerating and disengaging the clutch revs would hang causing the vehicle to continues to accelerate on selecting a higher gear eg. 3rd to 4th.
2. If hard acceleration was being used as above the revs would momentarily rise 200-300 rpm.
3. It was possible due to either of the above to loose rear traction on wet or slippery surfaces due to the above.
4. When cruising (say on a motorway) releasing the accelerator to slow down would result in overrun, eg. the car continued at the same speed for several seconds.

MMC had been working on an ECU development for the Aero ARV6, there was an opportunity to possibly develop a simpler solution for a road going 3.7 Roadster requiring just an ECU change. I offered my car to trial this solution once it was ready and MMC were satisfied that testing of it was sufficient to have confidence putting it on a customers car for trail. Prior it was dyno tested on an engine and was run on two other factory cars before mine. The development in my opinion undertaken by MMC and MBE (the ECU developers) for the past 8 months has been significant and has not been simple. The Ford supplied ECU is effectively locked down and as such any replacement has to work in the same format to enable it to interface with the Roadster instruments and engine monitoring systems/sensors. I cannot go into technicalities (which although I work in IT) as I am not skilled in this area, although I do understand the underlying issues to replicate and emulate a replacement ECU which is then configurable.

In early January this year Mark Evans at MMC asked if I was willing to conduct the trail, which I agreed to do. The new ECU was fitted by Chris Bridgens of MMC and setup in conjunction with Jeff of MBE at the factory. Possible measurements were discussed on how to judge its success, and all agreed it would be best for me to monitor and feedback how I felt best, so as to not lead me into any conclusions. I took the following measurements in detail.

Every trip undertaken was measured accurately using a GPS system for mileage and speed.
Indicated Speedometer, Odometer, Mileometer, Average MPG, Economy readout, and Temperature readings were monitored and recorded.
Any performance issues or problems with the car were noted and reported
Fuel consumption was measured accurately on fill ups to ascertain accurate mpg and comparisons with indicated mpg on the car.

Over the next 8 weeks I drove a varying length of trips, on motorways, A roads, local urban driving and to and from work, ranging from a few miles to 160. Conditions varied, dry, wet, and on the edge of icy. When able I pushed the car, accelerating hard to try and induce Rev hang and other issues previously mentioned. At the end over testing over 1700 miles were completed.

Testing Results

1. From day one of the new ECU the Rev hang and points 2 to 4 were gone.

2. Initially the engine would occasionally cut out on start up, this was rectified on the second visit to MMC.

3. I identified anomalies with MPG, Economy meter, Odometer and Mileometer readings against actual. These were addressed and rectified on the 2nd visit to MMC, with changes to the ECU programming.

4. After the second visit to MMC I experienced occasional cutout on slow approach to junctions. This was rectified after the final visit to MMC, by adjustment to ECU cam sensor mapping, an anomaly only experienced on my car to date. This relates to High Tension electrical noise transfer from the HT coil cap nearest Cam 1. MBE informed us that the new ECU has inbuilt filtering and this was tuned to removed the noise for all Cam sensors, they have experienced this before with ECUs requiring a loom harness adapter.

5. After the second visit to MMC I experienced once the car going into limp home mode - fixed 2000rpm (occurs when ECU is confused or unable to get accurate readings). I have been advised this can be forced to occur on any 3.7 Roadster or Mustang if the accelerator pedal is stamped on, effectively switching it from low voltage to high very quickly. It can assume there is a fault and for safety puts the car into limp home mode at 2000rpm. Adjustments and checks were made to ensure that the ECU would react correctly and put the car into limp mode when appropriate.

6. After the 3rd visit of the car to MBE and MMC unfortunately the car went into limp mode once unexpectedly and once deliberately induced by myself. The car returned for a 4th visit on 3rd March to MBE & MMC, after this MMC discussed with Ford and it was established that there are 3 iterations of the ETB(accelerator) and some early Roadsters had the 2nd, the case with my car, this requires slightly less sensitive ECU voltage parameters, and MBE made the required changes. I collected the car on 13 March and have had no limp home mode re-occurrence to date, or any other issues. If I do find any I will report back.

Summary

My final testing has shown that the fuel consumption has not been affected and I believe is as before the ECU change, performance has not been affected and if anything I feel the car is smoother under acceleration and just as quick to respond. My Roadster is now lovely to drive and gear changing can be reasonably quickly, just how it should be in my view. On the final visit to MMC arranged for the car to have an emissions test at a local MOT centre and the car passed. There is one minor issue outstanding, the Economy meter does not work correctly, I am not concerned about this as I do not consider it important on a Roadster, MMC may or may not choose to investigate.

Summing up the Rev hang and other issues 2-4 above are no more, the car is a pleasure to drive and I am now very happy with the way it behaves and is as one would expect. I would recommend that any 3.7 Roadster owner who has the aforementioned issues talks to their main dealer and MMC to get the changes required applied to their Roadster.

In my opinion MMC has undertaken a great deal of work and investment into getting a solution for this problem and some may not appreciate that it was a difficult and challenging thing to do. I would like to take this opportunity to thank Steve Morris, Mark Evans, and all at MMC who worked on my car and Jeff at MBE who worked on the ECU, and the trust they placed in me to do the trial. We all think that the result is good and should be a generic fit for any 3.7 Roadster.

I think that Morgan in conjunction with Aero Racing have come up with a very satisfactory and cost effective enhancement to the 3.7 Roadster.

Final Results

Mark Baldwin on 12 March took my car home and drove around 65 miles round trip and tried to induce the limp home mode and was unable to do so.

Drive home from MMC on 13 March a total of 153.1 mile(GPS), recorded odometer miles 152.9.

This journey involved 90 miles on M5/M4 at 70+mph, and 10-15mins in heavy near stationary traffic, a detour to Williams Automobiles, and the remainder was on A roads at 30-60mph.

Fuel fill up 25.6 Litres or 5.6 gallons, average calculated mpg 27.38. Indicated mpg 30.9. The MPG anomaly I suspect will be due to fill up discrepancy of around 2 litres from when MMC filled the car and I did. Previous recorded fuel usage during the trial has regularly indicated average mpg of 30 to 31.

I also performed several hard acceleration tests in different gears when able, revving the car up to 6500rpm and was unable to induce the limp home mode.

Two further short drives undertaken locally in drier conditions on 14 March and once again under hard acceleration and no limp home mode has been induced.

I am planning to drive my Roadster this coming week to the Exeter Park and Ride using dual carriageway and A roads and will report if I have any issues as a result but I am not anticipating any.

Emission Test Results

Conducted at Malvern Motor Services on 12 March 2015

Fast Idle Test 2500-3000rpm
CO = 0.09 Pass max 0.20
HC = 37 Pass Max 200
Lambda = 1.022 Pass Min 0.97 max 1.030

Natural Idle Test 450-1500rpm
CO = 0.02 Pass Max 0.30

Happy driving

Sounds like a great result, well done to MMC, MBE, and you!

I have an MBE ECU in my Ecotec conversion, I can access it with the Easymap software, do you have this feature?

Not at present.

Good report and result Adrian. Sounds like a great improvement to the Roadsters driveabilty.

Great write up Adrian.

There always has to be one!
Well done Adrian!

I don't suppose MMC will be giving away this rectification upgrade to existing owners will they Adrian?

Adrian,
glad to hear of progress I know you were frustrated by the ECU issues at Bicester

As I said "Talk to their Main Dealer and MMC"

Excellent News....
Well done to all at MMC.
Well done to Adrian too.

Is it a CANBus ECU? If so, then you can get an adapter from SBD Motorsport, and the software can be downloaded from their website. Install onto a Windows laptop, USB cable to the adapter, plug into your OBD port, and away you go.

You probably won't be able to update parameters yourself, as the ECU will be locked down, but you should be able to read a whole cartload of parameters, and log them whilst driving.

If you're within striking distance of Stroud, you'd be welcome to try my setup to see if it works.

I hardly understand a word of this thread!


But well done Adrian for your diligence and well done MMC for reacting in this way.

.

Bud

Very good news Adrian and MMC

I didnt even know you had a problem. You kept that quiet.

Thanks for all the kind comments, I tried my best and hope it helps some 3.7 Roadster owners that may want to change their ECU.

I'm surprised to see that it takes a complete change of the ECU to fix this problem. It confirms that Morgan does not have any access to the ECU. I guess Morgan has tried to motivate Ford do do some modifications.
So the message is that Ford as the supplier of the units seems not to care and wasn't willing to do something about the issue.
It's take it as it is or leave it then, isn't it?

That's sad.

Good work!

Is the Cyclone used in any mainstream Ford over here? If not, it might explain why they are reluctant to do anything to assist - not worth their time/effort.
BMW were, I believe, very helpful regarding retweaking their V8s going into Morgan Aeros...

You have to consider that modern cars are in development several years before release and then the development teams move onto new projects, so revisiting becomes out of the question unless absolutely necessary. So when a company like MMC take on a engine, gearbox and ECU for a 3rd party there is an inherent risk unless they are in at the beginning of its development and have the opportunity to try it in their own end solution.

I can think of two reasons:

First, BMW has a history of working with small companies that produce special cars based on their motors, including Morgan, Alpina and I suppose Rolls Royce.

Second, BMW is still a family owned firm that is actually interested in cars and driving. Ford is just a public consumer goods business that makes a product that happen to be cars.

And if you look at it from Fords perspective, the volume of engines being supplied to Morgan probably do not justify the cost in developing a remap.

I think you're both correct, gentlemen..!!

Couldn't of said it better myself

Adrian,

Many thanks for the write up, the rev hang up has been a proper niggle for me, and while it is possible to drive round it, it detracts much from the experience.

My Roadster is booked into the factory to have the MBE ECU fitted in May, so it's good to hear the back story on the development, testing, results etc.

DD

I think you will like it, my car has sports exhaust and the upper end acceleration seems smoother now and possibly a bit quicker, but very difficult to tell. Let me know how you get on.

No enough to re-program the traction control for the Aero, I believe, which is a much lighter than what the engine etc was originally in.

A sports exhaust is probably on my list, but I need to have a listen to it before making that commitment.
The factory have also offered a lightened flywheel conversion, but I'm going to hold fire on that until I see how the ECU upgrade feels.

The sports exhaust Adrian has was made by us at Williams

And sporty its is too, a nice overrun sound, with a throaty growl, gets a few comments.

Interesting read and great result. Thanks for sharing.

Well done to all involved.

I can't comment on the effect of a lightened flywheel for the Roadster, but i had those decades ago in an other car and it was really fun to see, how responsive an engine can get with this easy modification. I machined them myself, down to the ultimate minimum that you need to keep the starter. You can loose some kilogramms that way.

I don't have these issues with Stanley.

Is this Stanley the steam engine

This is excellent news - I've just bought a new Roadster. I'd be interested in your feedback once you have had the remap and also if anyone knows if this is a chargeable upgrade (and how much) or a fix under warranty.

Well done MMC, MBE & Adrian. Excellent result. Happy motoring.

As I said "Talk to their Main Dealer and MMC"

Quick update, very early drive to Exeter P&R this morning, little traffic about so some very hard accelerations to 6K rpm in several gears, and no Limp Home Mode induced

So at present all is looking good, i will continue trying for another couple of days, but feeling confident all is good.

Naughty boy....broke a few speed limits then?

Drivers like Adrian never "break" speed limits they just "make good progress" where it is safe and appropriate to do so!

Hi Adrian,
Sounds all good news to me!Bet the car sounds awesome at 6,000 rpm with your sporty exhaust.Thank you and MMC for all the effort put into resolving an unpleasant problem.
Regards David

It's all about what gear your in, but then you bumbling old boys tend to change gear too soon so maybe would not know.

Hell, yes!! If only you could bottle that feeling..

I like being a bumbling old boy, taken me many years to acheive that status, unless of course I am at the hill climb, then Adrian, I become a super fast youngster.

I would agree with that

Another great drive P&R Exeter, no issues to report

That road has a 50 limit!

You need driving glasses Bud, the A30 is 70mph

Quick report, P&R drive again, enthusiastic nice smell of hot exhaust, tyres and brakes when I parked. All ran smoothly, a few low gear high Rev accelerations and all smooth.

That's good to hear Adrian...roll on May 6th!!

This teasing is like an automotive porn show..!!

Lets have a few short sound bytes or some vid, Adrian. High rev/low gears, oooooh, quick nurse, the screens!!

Hi,
Clearly much work been completed by all.. With regard to your issue1, does this characteristic remain, or has this fix improved it .

When I first got the Roadster I was frustrated with the revs hanging but I have learnt to drive round it and it does not bother me to much now. That said I would be interested in solving the problem. The issue I have is I like the banging popping on a trailing throttle you get with the current system.

Does the fix remove the banging and popping?

My plus 8 has side exhausts and does this in spades, I love it.

Hi as I said IMHO

"Testing Results

1. From day one of the new ECU the Rev hang and points 2 to 4 were gone. "

You can drive the car normally now without having to think about whether the revs have dropped before selecting the next gear. If you go up to the 6k rpm area then revs drop but not as immediately, but is as I would expect on a powerful raod car. This will be a characteristic of the engine design in conjunction with a heavy dual mass flywheel that has high inertia. The solution is to replace with a lightened solid one, but then this will have two effects, the engine will Rev differently, with a pronounced on/off throttle feel, much like a race car, not what I would want for a road car. The gearbox will take more of a bashing, as the rubber flex in the dual mass taking up judder will no longer be there, so the gearbox will probably not last as long, maybe acceptable in a race car, but not for me.


In answer to the next post.
With respect to the popping banging, it is still present but to a lesser extent I think, it can be induced by feathering the throttle on coasting and then releasing. Same on my Plus 8. I have a sports exhaust so is highlighted. Personally I think this happens on most powerful engines that are highly tuned, mainly due to quick throttle change and excess unburnt fuel being sent down the pipes. I was told that Ford actually said that the holding of revs was to burn it off and meet emmisons. I consider this rubbish and a smoke screen, modern ECUs can switch of injectors in milliseconds and spark, there will always be some unburnt fuel being dumped. I doubt if you would ever totally stop the popping, you could muffle it with a made to measure silencer, but then performance will be impacted, but if you just want to cruise it probably does not matter. I quite like it (the hooligan in me)

Fuel used report.

144.5 Miles recorded - Journeys of 20+ miles to & form P&R in Exeter, with some high rev driving to test that all is well with the ECU, Limp Mode was not induced. A general mix of speeds. Not paying particular attention to saving on Fuel.

Fill up 24.43litres or 5.38 gallons

Average MPG recorded 27.4, calculated average mpg 26.85

So I think this is to be expected on this sort of driving and I would expect on a long run cruising at around 70, 30-32mpg. When I next do a long run probably up to TOTH I will let you know what I get.

Well, the wait is over...
Driving up from West London to the Factory tomorrow to have the new ECU fitted tomorrow....all rather excited here!

I don't have my Roadster any more, but I shall be very interested to hear how you get on.

Is this a costly operation?

I thought I heard �800 or so mentioned somewhere?

I dropped my car off at the factory today for the new ecu / loom and few other jobs and will pick up early next week - will report back !

Good luck and hope all goes well.

Will be interested in how you find your car to drive after the ECU change. Hope all goes well

Hello.
I am very interested in the outcome as i has just changed my 3.0 roadster to 15 plate 3.7 , has anyone else apart from adrian had this done, if so how do you rate it, also is it a simple case of swapping ECU while you wait or more involved.
Alan.

I believe based on my initial experience it's about a mornings work, maybe less, once fitted I guess it will be checked out on a computer and road tested. I am still very pleased with the result, after the final visit to MBE/MMC no more hiccups, car is probably more powerful than before. All original issues as reported gon. When I get time will take it to a local garage that has a rolling road and tunes race cars, then I can report on torque/bhp. MPG is ok, careful driving 30 mpg, will drop to 27 if being right foot happy, pretty good for a car with around 300bhp.

I wrote to the factory after Adrian's post and had a reply from Mark Evans. His comments were as follows:

1. The company has finished developing the mod and are happy with the results.
2. Only issue they've had is that the spontaneous fuel reading (displayed as a bar) no longer works.
3. Your dealer can fit the upgrade.
4. BHP increases to 300bhp from 285bhp.
5. Price �1,779 + VAT.
6. 320bhp available with a new flywheel for a further �1,415 + VAT
7. This is an upgrade - no contribution from the company under warranty.

I guess you also need to check with your insurance company.

Still thinking about whether to go for it. I'll certainly wait until my Roadster is fully run in and some more to see how the Rev hang issue affects me at full performance. I'd be really interested in the views of anyone who's had it done.

Ben

I to spoke to the factory today regarding the upgrade/rev hang remedy but at a cost of �2135.40 will try to get used to it for a bit longer.

"Price �1,779 + VAT." = �2135

Good grief! But why should I be surprised that Morgan have the effrontery to charge so much to remedy a situation they should never have allowed to happen? They are certainly following form.

I'm guessing that a new Omex 710 ECU and relevant mapping could be done for half that price, and, they might have the fuel readout working too.

Why does anybody take their car back to the factory and pay through the nose, to have work done which could be done by many competant businesses dotted around the country, for far less money. Sorry Bumpy not personal.

I am struggling to get my head around this having spoken to Adrian about the issues of rev-hang he had on his 3.7 Roadster.

Please correct me if I am wrong; but a customer will spend �48,000 + on a new Roadster and then have to pay an additional �2135 to get the ecu sorted (sorry "upgraded") to an acceptable standard?

yes sir.

Certainly SIR!


(even with a brand new car currently in built they�ll charge you the full sum... )

Paul it's not that straight forward, I did some research and talked with various tuners and racers in the USA about the Mustang, they have the same issues though less pronounced due to the weight of the car and also only the GT had a manual box, the ECU being set up for an auto. Some have managed to resolve it and others not, but not cheaply. The situation with the Morgan 3.7 is worse as Ford locked down the ECU and also tied it to the canbus supplied instruments. I talked with a major designer of ECUs in Italy, who supplies a lot of the automotive industry, he said yes it could be overcome but with difficulty.

I don't know if it would be the case with the 3.7 Roadster but the Omex ECU that I have on my car is only an engine management system. It is set up so that all the dashboard functions etc are still run by the original ECU.

OK, I can see the difficulty Adrian, and I think you've done a fantastic job in sorting out the problem, but I don't think that Morgan should profit from the excercise. They are taking the same stance as they did with the Three Wheeler and allowing their customers to do the Beta testing - either the car is fit for purpose or it isn't, and it isn't as if they are giving any of their models away either.

As I said each owner needs to discuss with their dealer and MMC, it took me a long time to resolve!

Hi Adrian, if/when you do get power figures, please share.

The upgrade yesterday went smoothly, only two hours labour on the invoice. The major part of the cost is the new ECU (and I have the old one in a box, so perhaps can offset the costs by selling that on?) and two new lambda sensors (again I have the old ones).

Prior to having this done, I rarely took the engine passed 5k rpm, since this showed up the issue, and short shifted at around 4.5k. Now, the weather yesterday was hardly conducive to flat out hooliganism, but the M40 was dry enough in a few places for me to see what's what...and wooo... all the torque and power is still there in spades pulling hard up to the redline in 3rd and 4th, but now shifting above 5k feels pucker. This is now a properly great drive, I'm a very happy man!

There is also the opportunity to swap the dual mass flywheel for something lighter, but just from my brief experience yesterday, I'd say this might be a step too far for a road car. There's a natural feel to the revs dropping on backing off the throttle the way it currently is, lightening the flywheel would make this much harsher adding a degree of shunt into the process...

Great to hear from someone else who has had the ECU changed, I am hanging on to my ECU just in case. Your initial findings on the improved drivability are as mine, you can now be much more confident with the right foot and feeling you will be in control when changing up gear at higher revs. On open and quiet roads I can be a bit of a boot boy and before I had several rear end loss of traction due to the Rev hang or slight increase in revs, one which was very unpleasant as I was entering a bend. I would be very interested in your actual MPG figures from a measured fill up against a known mileage measured either on a map or gps. Prior to the final tweak my car was returning around 30mpg on general driving, but is now around 27-28 mpg. Considering the engine is putting out around 300bhp then 27-28 is probably not bad.

I completely agree on the flywheel front, with a lightened one it is very likely to perform more like an one off switch with the power, fine for a race car, but in a car that is already relatively light on the road I suspect it would become a difficult car to drive and possibly unpredictable for a less experienced driver. Maybe a step too far IMHO.

We're heading to Ireland for a week at the end of the month Adrian, so will keep track of miles versus fill ups and let you know.

When I had a test drive at Bell & Colvill open day last summer I couldn't believe the rev-hang issue. It ruined the car and made gearchanges slow and cumbersome.

I wouldn't buy a car that was so poorly engineered (oops, I did buy an M3W...) If people keep buying the car with the existing issue I suppose it's a bit of a caveat emptor thingy.

But sounds like the car is transformed after the change, so based on my experience I would go for the change in a flash, and treat it as an aftermarket upgrade and you do get a bit more power too.

...well: i�ll (hopefully...) soon be able to add some experiences with both the ECU upgrade and the flywheel exchange (+ some more refinements...).

All depending on how quick the factory is building/finishing my car now...

... and how quick the capable people at Williams are in upgrading it!

Well it was sitting just inside the trim shop this morning waiting for all that lovely leather

Met a lovely couple who know you, from Hamburg who are producing a book following the build of a car right through the process. They showed me their book of the LMC2012 with a lovely shot of me driving my 4/4. They are going to post me a signed copy of the book when they get back!